Rock Climbing Washington

[Charlie]

i recently bought the ROCK CLIMBING WASHINGTON book by Jeff Smoot- I noticed several incorrect ratings of climbs (in the areas i was very familiar with) in frenchman coulee and lworth. This could be a problem if you are using the book in an area new to you. How about posting the mistakes and giving the correct ratings so we can make revisions?

[This message has been edited by Charlie (edited 10-01-2001).]

[Dru]

on the same subject I lost my copy of that book last time i was in Lworth. if anybody found a copy with some tick marks in the frenchman's and lworth areas and is feeling like good karma let me know.

i realize this is a longshot.

charlie - smoot has some errata posted on his website. there's a link to it from matt p's online darrington page http://www.seanet.com/~mattp/Darr/

[Retrosaurus]

Ratings are always wrong. Why would you think that the numbers that you are more familiar with are any more correct.

[DPS]

I agree with Retro, ratings are always subjective. That said, I was pleased to find I am climbing harder than before (according to Smoot's ratings).

[Charlie]

The intention of this post is to provide a resource of information, not speculation- we all know that most of the 5.8s at vantage are really 5.7, and the 5.10s should be 5.8.... i just wanted to be able to write in the correct (previously established, not new opinions) ratings into my new book, and thought others might want to do the same.-------here's what i have spotted so far- Vantage: the uprising(says 5.7, should be 5.8), easy off(says 5.10c should be 5.10b), tangled up in blue(says 5.10c should be 5.9) narlux(says 5.11a should be 5.10c)....Castle Rock: angle(says 5.10b, should be 5.10a) damnation crack(says 5.8 should be 5.9)

[Retrosaurus]

 

Honestly, the only ratings that I would bother to disagree with are Tangled up in Blue,and Narlux.

[Charlie]

if you find another 23 to add to your 2 cents, you can call someone who cares to hear your opinions! Im NOT talking about controversial ratings. when the the author calls a 5.9 a 5.10c, i don't think he is stating his opinion of the route, i think he made a misprint- that's all i'm looking for here: correcting misprints, not adjusting sandbags/softies. lets all pop a couple of ritalin and try to stay focused...geeez!

[Cpt.Caveman]

On that note after reading what Jens had to say about Carnival Crack it might be one in contention? Smoot calls it 10c...

Maybe they don't know because they (authors) simply have not climbed them is what I might guess.

Viktor I would like to see a topo of where Bird's Nest Overhang is. I mean it is an original line and all. Somebody told me it was good too.

[This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 10-01-2001).]

[Peter_Puget]

Hold on to your hat Retro. I fully agree with your assessment. Also ratings differing only a letter grade or two are not worth arguing about. As far as ratings not being fair to the newbie I think that ratings have in general been over inflated in recent years especially with regard to certain areas. For example take Damnation Crack or Godzilla or Outer Space traverse pitch and compare it to some of the 5.9s at Si/38. The three routes I have mentioned have been rated essentially the same (or lower!) for years and yet I bet concensus would indicate that they are indeed harder than those at Si/38. Grade inflation is in fact playing games on "bright eyed bushy tailed enthusiastic newb[ies]" and could lead them into climbs way over their heads at other areas. For example: at the Meadows or even Tieton.

 

[Cpt.Caveman]

I pretty much agree with Peter here. Many of the overinflated areas are at the North Bend crags and do come up elsewhere. I found a lot of the ratings are pretty close at Lworth and Index as well as Tieton since they match Yosemite.

[Peter_Puget]

If you think there is a problem with a rating, posting here is great but writing the guidebook author in a constructive manner might be even better!

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peter Puget:

If you think there is a problem with a rating, posting here is great but writing the guidebook author in a constructive manner might be even better!

---

By the way how do you contact Fred ? I want to tell him I think some of his approaches are off as well as scramble ratings

[Charlie]

have you ever recieved a letter sent to someone who doesn't live at your address, yet the sender has written YOUR address on the envelope? Do you think the sender felt, that regardless of what everyone else has said, that person SHOULD actually live at your address- so, they went ahead and wrote the wrong address. NO- Im talking about mistakes! misprints! errors! typos! I could give a damn about anyones opinions- Ive climbed a lot in joshua tree and ive climbed a lot at vantage- I know ratings are subjective, that's not what Im talking about.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Charlie we hear your message and I think it is clear what you are getting at. I pretty much agree with some of the climbs already noted. Especially Smoot calling Damnation 5.8 whew that is not right!

But there is some wisdom behind this posting by Peter too since there are several authors.. I dont think they collaborate much.

[This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 10-01-2001).]

[sexual_chocolate]

Wow Charlie, I think you need some chocolate! And an unfortunate reminder: telephoning went up! 35 cents now, yo! So slide me 12 cents so I can call yo mama and tell her about her impatient and RUDE little boy! 'Cause you be gettin' nasty! She be needin' ta deliver you a slappin'!

Do you notice your idiotic hypocrisy when contrasting your sanctimonious admonition to my post with the contents of your previous posts?

"The intention of this post is to provide a resource of information, not speculation- we all know that most of the 5.8s at vantage are really 5.7, and the 5.10s should be 5.8.... i just wanted to be able to write in the correct (previously established, not new opinions) ratings into my new book, and thought others might want to do the same.-------here's what i have spotted so far- Vantage: the uprising(says 5.7, should be 5.8), easy off(says 5.10c should be 5.10b), tangled up in blue(says 5.10c should be 5.9) narlux(says 5.11a should be 5.10c)....Castle Rock: angle(says 5.10b, should be 5.10a) damnation crack(says 5.8 should be 5.9)"

Boy Charlie, those seem like serious differences on a few routes you note above! Careful before someone kills themself!

Check your head before pandering to your idiot sense of sanctimony. Your "project", as it stands, seems worthless.

[Peter_Puget]

Charlie - I agree with you too! At least in so far as the rating is off a bunch as several were in your list. I have sent info to almost all the guidebook writers in Washington. Some I could tell weren't that interested others went out of their way to thank me. One even said that despites lots of complaints on the internet, I was only the second person to actually send him something.

[terrible_ted]

Gotta keep this going - maybe we could get a pool going on which post Charlie is gonna completely lose it on... My bet is on response #8 - "NEVER GET OUT OF THE BOAT!"

The problem w/ pee pee's advice is you'd have to buy a copy of an 'updated' edition for a typo-corrected version.

I think all routes everywhere are underrated. Except the ones I've done. Those were fucking EASY!!

Oh yeah CC: I talked to Fred, and he said you were off route...

-t

[This message has been edited by terrible ted (edited 10-01-2001).]

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by terrible ted:

Oh yeah CC: I talked to Fred, and he said you were off route...

-t

---

Damn! I knew he would say that! Tell the old bugger quit sandbagging all his ratings and to quit hitting on my 13 year old sister every time he come's around

[jblakley]

Yeah Charlie simmer down. Do the boys and I need to pitch in and buy you another session with Mistress Shirley?

By the way anybody have info on the newer routes on Clamshell Cave? They're the two routes that begin underneath the roofs to the right of that 5.9 trad/sport and the 10c sport climb. Sorry I don't have my guidebook with me and I don't remember the names of the other routes.

Both route have an initial hanger at the lip of the roof and are a mix of hangers and trad the rest of the way.

Thanks

[Cpt.Caveman]

Charlie I like it when people get crazy on this site! Get rowdy mofo!

[Charlie]

when i said "5.10c should be 5.9" I meant jeff smoot's book states that it is 5.10c, every other description I have read calls it 5.9- leading me to believe that it is in fact 5.9 and, mr smoot made an error when he transfered the data to his book................sexual chocalate: You were offering to give your opinion. I was not looking for an opinion, I simply wanted to correct some errors in my new guidebook....as for calling me an idiot and bringing my momma into this conversation, that is very bad form- especially since you have know idea who you are talking to- for all you know i could be a 70yo lady or...

[sexual_chocolate]

Charley: Damn! I was right! You ARE a seventy-year old lady! I had a bet with a friend....

"You were offering to give your opinion. I was not looking for an opinion..."

Last time I checked, grades were very much about opinion. Nothing but opinion, yo. If they weren't, we wouldn't squabble about them, now would we? Hello? Anybody there? Got your hearing-aid on, Gramma? And now you're gonna take the old guides ratings as sacrosanct? Well what the hell kind of guide are you writing, and why the hell ya writing it? Ya gots new goods for the masses? New routes? Or will this simply be "Grade corrections, by Charlie." Followed by a one-page narrative: "Check OLD guide-books for proper grades."

And, btw, my initial route grade opinions that I posted reflected a previously PRINTED grade designation. Check your head, Gramma. And maybe go climbing more so you can come up with some of your own OPINIONS.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Annoying chocolate, be warned that Charlie aint no grannie nor little punk.

I personally would not talk any shit since I know he is a big dude.... He might get angry and rip your head off.

Just a thought.

[Charlie]

nevermind- perhaps i overestimated the resources of this site, i was just trying to get some useful info.....anyone want to tell about some really hard climb they did, or complain about some unnessesary bolts they may have spotted lately? would that be more appealling?

[Charlie]

thanks for the backup cc- but im not in the getting angry and ripping heads off business, im more into climbing with friends and having a good time. i guess this is my cue to get off of this site and do something constructive.....seeya