Everest in the news for all the wrong reasons

[genepires]

quote implies is that the people who pay to get guided up Everest are waaaay richer than Sherpas, relatively speaking.

 

it's saying that rich western clients are more easily able to forego a huge amount of money in a wealthy western country than a Sherpa is able to forego a much smaller amount of money in a poor country.

 

In other words, it's saying that the Sherpas are still barely scraping by, as one season could make or break them.

 

Usually the employers are richer than the employee. client hire guide service and service hires employees. person upstream is richer. and the problem is.........?

 

 

I don't think that guiding companies are trying to "screw over" the Sherpas - quite the reverse, actually, since look how many companies stepped up and cancelled their seasons (which will affect their business, their reputations, and their bottom lines) when the the Sherpas went on strike.

 

what is the strike over? if it is wages, then it is an issue with the guide service. If it is over working conditions, then it an issue with the mountain. If it is over getting rich people up the mountain, then they are in the wrong business.

 

That said, this is still an issue of rich people operating in a poor country, and the labor tangle that entails. Don't think that Sherpas are crossing the Khumbu Icefall dozens of times because they "love climbing" and it's a "good job" - they need the money.

 

Now I am confused. Are you suggesting that rich people not be allowed to travel to poor countries?

If the guide services are paying their employees well, are you suggesting that the clients give much better tips, enough for each Sherpa to retire at a early age after one season?

 

You went from the problem being a few media sources not highlighting the labor issues (and choosing to tell about the clients grief's) and going to economic inequality. What exactly is your point and possible solution?

 

[rob]

It's OK to pay people less than you normally would but only if they're from a poor country, or female. Duh! THEY SHOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR THEIR PITTANCE!

[genepires]

It's OK to pay people less than you normally would but only if they're from a poor country, or female. Duh! THEY SHOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR THEIR PITTANCE!

 

so snarky-ness aside, you are saying that Sherpa support should be paid the same US dollars as the western guides?

 

Does that same belief apply to workers who make everything else that is outsourced?

[max]

It's OK to pay people less than you normally would but only if they're from a poor country, or female. Duh! THEY SHOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR THEIR PITTANCE!

 

so snarky-ness aside, you are saying that Sherpa support should be paid the same US dollars as the western guides?

 

Does that same belief apply to workers who make everything else that is outsourced?

 

and to piggy back off that, does that mean I should pay $.03 for a cup of tea at starbucks?

[tvashtarkatena]

At an average of $5000 per season, a high altitude Sherpa makes 7 times the national average salary in Nepal.

 

In the US, that would be the equivalent of making over $300,000 per year. In this sense, they are far more highly compensated in their country than foreign guides are in there's.

 

Unsurprisingly, the Sherpas demands are not focused on a bigger paycheck. According to Alan Arnette, those demands focus on compensation for victims and improved working conditions. They include:

 

• Increment of immediate relief announced for avalanche victims

 

• Provide Rs 10 million (US$103,590) each to families of deceased

 

• Set up a memorial park in the name of the deceased in Kathmandu

 

• Cover all expenses for treatment of the injured

 

• Provide Rs 10 million (US$103,590) to critically hurt who cannot rejoin mountaineering activities

 

• Set up mountaineering relief fund with 30 per cent of royalty collected from issuing permits to different mountains (est $1M for 2014)

 

• Double the insurance amount to the mountaineering workers

 

• Provide additional chopper rescue to mountaineering support staff if insurance fails to cover the cost

 

• Provide perks and salaries, except summit bonus, through concerned agencies to Sherpas if they want to call off climbing this season

 

• Manage chopper to bring logistics and equipment from different camps if mountaineers decide to abandon climbing this season

 

• Don’t take action against SPCC icefall doctors if they refuse to fix ropes and ladders on the route this season

 

• Let the expedition members to call off this season’s climbing if they wish so

 

 

[genepires]

those sound like reasonable expectations for risks involved.

 

curious what our local fire fighters & police have in case of severe accidents / fatalities.

[Bosterson]

More context:

 

[The indexed Human Development Index] captures the HDI of the average person in society, which is less than the aggregate HDI when there is inequality in the distribution of health, education and income. Under perfect equality, the HDI and IHDI are equal; the greater the difference between the two, the greater the inequality. In that sense, "the IHDI is the actual level of human development (taking into account inequality), while the HDI can be viewed as an index of the potential human development that could be achieved if there is no inequality."

 

For 2012:

 

----- ---

1) Norway ----- .955 --- .894

16) US ----- .937 --- .821

18) France ----- .893 --- .812

19) UK ----- .875 --- .802

 

109) Nepal ----- .463 --- .304

 

Source

 

Can we just acknowledge that there are important economic differences besides adjusting for the relative value of different currencies? Sherpas making "7x the national average" are not literally making the "equivalent of $300,000 per year." They are not buying mansions (let alone suburban homes) and sports cars or SUVs. GDP/capita in Nepal is US $1300 vs $57,000 in this country. Their literacy rate is 48% and they have an average lifespan of 66.8 years, vs 78.6 here. And if you think unemployment is high in the US, be thankful we're still in the single digits - it's 46% in Nepal.

 

This is not to knock what Pat wrote, just that people are fixating on the money itself. Can we agree that Nepal is a much poorer country, not just in terms of the value of its money, but in terms of its infrastructure and opportunity for the average person, than countries in the west?

 

Also, to amend what Pat wrote, the Sherpas are making these demands of the Nepalese government, not of the guiding companies. Pat's compensation figure is also too large. As of last year, Sherpa families currently get 1 million Nepalese Rupees from the government if a Sherpa dies on Everest. This = US $10,392, according to Google. The Sherpas are asking that it be raised to 2 million NR. As noted by a Sherpa writer in the Financial Times, the 1M NR amount is barely enough to cover the deceased's funeral.

 

(I also realize Pat's figure is from a blog. I found the $10,000 figure in National Geographic, Wikipedia, and Krakauer's New Yorker article.)

Edited May 7, 2014 by Bosterson

[tvashtarkatena]

My 5000 average annual salary is from a blog - Alan Arnette's.

 

You've confused that figure with life insurance payouts.

 

 

[mthorman]

those sound like reasonable expectations for risks involved.

 

curious what our local fire fighters & police have in case of severe accidents / fatalities.

 

Not sure about police but firefighters in the state of WA are covered under $100,000 state life insurance if they die on the job. Severe accidents at work would be covered under L&I, so not really sure what all that would entail in benefits. Different fire departments also have a disability retirement, but again the exact benefits would vary by department.

[Bosterson]

Further economic analysis:

 

GNI per capita based on purchasing power parity (PPP). PPP GNI is gross national income (GNI) converted to international dollars using purchasing power parity rates. An international dollar has the same purchasing power over GNI as a U.S. dollar has in the United States.

Source

 

In other words, GNI/capita = national average income. Converted to international dollars using PPP, it is a measurement of how much quality of life a national average income can buy in that nation compared to the US.

 

For Nepal, the 2012 national average income is the equivalent of $2,190 per year in the US. (Keep in mind that in 2012, the US poverty line for a single individual was $11,170 per year. If you're married, it goes up to $15,000, and if you also have a couple of kids, it goes up to at least $23,000.)

 

Thus, if Sherpas are being paid 7x the national average for Nepal, they are earning the equivalent of someone in the US who earns $15,330 per year. That person is not necessarily starving, but they're not living very well either....