Let's talk cars again

[allison]

I got a rather unexpected Christmas gift this year. On my way out to the FS cabin by Sequim that my family's taken to renting for the December holiday, my '87 Subaru 4WD SW decided it was time to blow a seal, so to speak. Actually it was the head gasket, which it was expected to go at around 175K but was nice enough to wait until 175,500.

 

My car is lying in state at a decent shop in Sequim, and I expect to get a full diagnosis and estimate after the mechanics get back from a short Xmas break. I am at the point where it is unlikely I'll still have this car after I get the bad news, as this is yet another expensive thing to have done to a car that is late in its life.

 

So.....about a year before I planned to have to buy a new car, I am probably going to do so, and I need a little advice.

 

The Sub has been a good car, except for the maintenance, which has been a little high, and the ground clearance, which is a little low. I like the amount of space in it. I do some driving in the city, so the gas mileage thing is a consideration, but might go the SUV route despite misgivings about gas mileage, and driving a 21st Century minivan.

 

Not a big fan of trucks.

 

Budget is TBD, but 5-7K seems like about what my bank account will tolerate without too much pain.

 

Ideas?

[PullinFool]

Never had one, but always thought the Pathfinders were pretty good rigs, late year n' all - not quite SUV ?? But maybe too "trucky" ?

Whew! Glad Christmas is done!

[Uncle_Tricky]

Ideas?

 

 

Edited December 27, 2002 by gapertimmy

[Beck]

Allison,

you say you do "some" driving in the city, does that mean "I do most of my driving in the city" and "My car goes to the mountains with me when i go, but hauls my ass around town to run errands and go to work mostly"?

Most SUV's, even driven by dirtbag climbers, get driven on paved roads to and from the trailheads, with less than 5% of the driving on gravel roads.

I'd reccommend fuel efficency over SUVing it; plus those things are dirty, dirty polluters- get a nice little station wagon for gear AND mileage.

If you were living in Provo, Utah, or Pinedale, Wyoming, i'd have a different recomendation for auto. But you live in Pugetopolis.

 

 

 

[sk]

Alli

 

As much as I WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!! an SUV I have to agree with Beck. They realy are dirty fule hoggers. If I were you I would prbably go with a newer rue. I think JK and I are going to have to get a (GASP) mini-van (sob). Rues just are not biger enough than a car for a family of 4 plus gear. And SUV's are dirty fule hoggers plus there is no point in having a car that you can not aford to drive any where

Edited December 26, 2002 by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer

[Greg_W]

I would disagree with you on one point, Muffy: SUV's are not necessarily "dirty fule hoggers". As engine design improves from year to year, efficiency improves and engines burn cleaner. My Chevy engine probably burns cleaner than whatever older Subaru that Allison will buy.

[mbcracken]

I also agree with the newer techie engines being much cleaner. I have 1998 4Runner that I get 20 mpg and occasionally have hit 24 mpg on longer road trips. Half of my choice for the 4Runner was also because I wanted some protection from the really big SUV's for my family.

 

my 2 Cents....

 

-Mike

[sk]

unfortunatly 4Runners rate marginal on the crash tests... so it wouldn't do ya a lot of good

 

20 mpg is not bad.... may be I need more resurch (shrug)

[allison]

My older Sub didn't get great gas mileage, prob 23 in the city and 27 on the highway.

 

Beck, I hear you re driving in the city. Due to the nature of my work, it is difficult not to drive to work every day, but my commute is less than 12 miles RT. I still don't want a bigger gas hog than the one I am replacing.

 

I realize that most of the driving we do is not on dirt and gravel roads, but I do enough bombing around on non-paved surfaces that I insist on 4WD. I liked that my Sub could be in either 2WD or 4WD. And the ground clearance thing was an issue on more than one occasion.

[mbcracken]

They actually did better then marginal when I bought it. They are still considered Acceptable with a couple Good ratings thrown in. web page

 

With a Golden Retriever and two girls, we needed samething that we could load for camping/climbing/skiing with the whole family. We now have a pod on top but still fully loaded down with gear we get 20 mpg. As a side note, we have also racked up 130,000 miles on our beast. The only item of concern was a leak from the water pump that the dealership took care of for us, post Warranty. Great Vehicle that I am planning on keeping forever.

 

The other vehicles I like are the Audi's Quattro A4's.

 

-Mike

 

[sk]

Good to know... thanks for the site.... JK and I have been looking and wandering what we were going to do as we have driven the hell out of our '96 Saturn. We have 2 boys, and any one who has been anywhere with children knows you take alot of gear we are getting something used.... just don't know what yet...

[mbcracken]

One other vehicle, if you can afford new is the Honda Pilot. It is a little larger then the 4Runner but comes with a 3rd Row munchkin seat that folds into the floor when not needed. I don't see any current safety ratings on it, but I am guessing it should be fairly safe since it is built on the Acura MDX which has recieved all "Good" safety ratings across the board. The engine is powerful enough to pull a small trailer and it meets the emission qualification of ULEV rating. The other cool thing about the car is that a large percentage of it is recyclable.

 

-Mike

[allison]

I can't afford new. See oringinal post.

[mbcracken]

Sorry, I wasn't specific in my reply. It was a reply to Muffy.

 

-Mike

[sk]

Can't afford new either... would like '96 or better though

[Beck]

ya, I am driving in the city, for the first time in seven years, Allison, and I won't tell you how much I dislike it.

This is the first time in seven years i've been a regular car commuter, I'm so green I'm mossy- but the downside to riding a bike to the eastside, in the winter, in the dark, really gave me cause to reconsider... It's not that I'm scared of the dark, I'm scared of all the idiotic SUV driving, cell phone talking eastsiders!

But on the up side,by spring I will be riding my bike out to Marmot - it takes me 1:10 minutes on bike, each way, versus :45 minutes by car... i'm just waiting for the greater safety margin leaving work during daylight will bring.

 

As a reiteration against SUV's as a vehicle of choice, although it sounds like you WANT one, Allison, is that although a new one may be cleaner than an old subaru (but i doubt that, greg W, in terms of particulates/NO2 emmisissions vs. automobiles) it is still going to be a much greater polluter, a bigger drain on your pocketbook, and how much more ground clearance do you need? Lots of SUV's have 9-10" clearance vs. 5" in a Subaru (outbacks have 6.5")

is it REALLY that important vs. a cleaner, less costly ride for 80-90 percent of the ON ROAD DRIVING you will do in your automobile?

 

if you are having a problem with ground clearance, bring along

1)a shovel

2) a prybar

3) a saw

4)a comealong

5) a couple stout planks

6)a four foot jack or two

and you will be covered for almost any road hazard.

 

 

 

[Alex]

1991 Honda Civic 4WD. Hard to find, good car though. I bought mine at 155k and it now has 187k, still ticking.

 

Gets about 32 mpg, is an "AWD" car, same drivetrain as the CRVs. Its a Civic wagon, so has a bit of room. I can't quite sleep in back but someone a few inches shorter could. It has a 6 speed manual (with a "super-low" gear, and 5 std gears) but also comes in automatic I think. The pre-91 models had the older civic styling, which doesnt look that great. This car also has a one-off EFI 1.6L engine that has greater horsepower than that std civic engines did, but the car only weighs a few hundred pounds more than the std civic.

 

All in all, a nice "4WD" civic with higher-than-std clearance, and good gas mileage. Its essentially the CRV, a little lower to the ground. I paid 4k for mine, you could go less expensive but you might have to wait, these are uncommon cars.

 

Alex

[dbconlin]

Sounds like the kind of vehicle you are looking for might be along the lines of the CRV, Toyota Rav4, Kia Sportage, Jeep liberty, or other "mini-utes," which are basically a car platform, with a SUV/wagon body, and a little extra clearance. Unfortunately, I think you'll have a hard time finding one in your price range, unless you go with a Suzuki Sidekick--I don't know if they are any good...? These vehicles just haven't been popular long enough to have a good used market yet. I think the Subaru Outbacks have been around long enough to find one in your price range, and they do have more clearance than the older 'Roos, but not by much (although nothing short of a full-on truck/SUV will have much more, or a Hummer). Don't know if this helps... good luck.

[Matt]

Alison,

 

You could get a 4Runner or Pathfinder and both of these cars have great engines that will go at least 200,000 miles. When compared with a Subaru that is almost guaranteed to die between 150k and 175k, a Toyota can be a better deal. Yes, a 4Runner does not get the mileage that a Subaru does, but if the engine lasts longer, isn't it in fact more environmentally friendly? (As I type these words I wonder if Fairweather has been sneaking into my room at night and brainwashing me). Unfortunately, Subarus loose their reliability above 100,000 miles, and this is probably what you're looking at if you want to spend less than $9k.

 

For the money you want to spend, You should probably not get a car with 4WD and look for a Toyota Camry, Honda Accord or other such Japanese car that is reliable and gets good mileage (over 30 mpg is good mileage IMHO). Both of these cars came in station wagon versions that might suit your climber lifestyle (can sleep in the back). Though a Camry is not *cool* it will keep going after other cars will die.

 

You should also look at Saturns. I thought Saturns were a total waste of plastic (is there any metal in them?) until a climbing partner and I went on a road trip in his Saturn. He got over 40 mpg in his Saturn and we were able to drive up to Squamish from Ballard, tool around all weekend and drive back on one tank of gas. Pretty awesome.

 

Saturns are cheap too.

 

Another thought: relplace your engine. Rebuilt Subaru engines from Japan are relatively inexpensive. I know a few people with over 260k on their Subarus with 2nd engines.

 

 

 

[allison]

No way man, gotta have that 4WD. Gotta, gotta have it.

 

Subs don't necessarily die at 175K, more accurately they blow a head gasket at that point. If properly maintained they can pretty much go forever.

 

Given that, and the fact that mine is in pretty good shape for its age, I'm most likely going to get the new motor and drive it for a while so I can decide what I really want to replace it with. My money's on its replacement being an older Outback. There is nothing else out there that I can see that will meet my needs as well.

[Toast]

I dunno Allison... a new moter will run you a couple grand installed. You're not apt to get that back in resale value when you do sell it. In the meantime, you are apt to get nicke and dimed to death one at a time (I mean couple hundred bucked to death) every few months on all the other little things likely to cash themselves in about now... a water pump, alternator, battery, heater, timing belt, clutch, brakes... My advice would be to bite the bullet and get a new(er) Subaru.

[sk]

I agree, rebuilding in the long run, I think, will cost you more... sometimes you just have to cut your losses and run..... I HATE CARS especialy when the wont run

[allison]

My Sub has already nickel and dimed me to death.

 

This old car has:

 

A new radiator, cam timing belt, water pump, TRANSMISSION, front CV joints and boots, wheel bearing, and fairly new tires.

 

At this point it has already been through all of that, and to the best of my knowledge, the top end is the last piece to do. Nothing else outside of routine maintenance should need to be done of it until the chassis really starts falling apart.

 

I know the top end might run as much as 2K, but given the condition of the car, it is worth that much, and buys me some time to make an informed choice instead of getting the first car I can find. If I buy another old Sub I have to go through all of that drama again!

[Greg_W]

I think at this point, re-sale value is a moot point. Even though it is a Subaru, with the mileage that Allison has on it, it has probably hit the minimum re-sale/trade-in value that it's going to hit.

[Figger_Eight]

Hey Allison,

 

I was in the same boat a couple of years ago. I had an '89 Soob that was at 180 k before a guy in a brand new Lexus pulled out in front of me...whammo - insurance money for me. If you want to stick with a Soob for around that price, I would suggest a '92 - '95 Legacy wagon. You have more cargo area than many SUV's, all wheel drive and good gas mileage. Ground clearance was never an issue for me.