to all of the anti axis of evil sooth sayers

[allthumbs]

Sexual Chocolate as overheard at the Doctor's office, "I have reason to believe my penis was exposed to LSD. When I ejaculate I have flashbacks."

[Dru]

Canadian healthcare better* than US.

 

Canadian healthcare universal.

 

Go figure?

 

* Depending on how you define "better" but the statistics seem to bear it out concerning lifespan etc.

[Peter_Puget]

OK serious reply. Dru you are msitaken as to quality of healthcare being reflected in averag elifespan. What needs to be compared are the outcomes after medical care is sought. Sadly in this Canada sucks compared to the US.

 

PP

 

Now go use your Orgone generator!

[Greg_W]

Dru,

 

What does this system cost in terms of tax burden? What about the heinous waiting that I've heard of? Like people having to wait 9 months for by-pass surgery and other things. These procedures are readily available in the US; immediately. What about the income caps that the government puts on physicians? This doesn't sound too good from a care, or liberty, standpoint. I really do want to know from someone firsthand; I hear a lot of general info and propaganda.

[sexual_chocolate]

Universal healthcare a boon to liberty? Is that true of those that are being taxed to death to pay for it?

 

I know I know. I'm sick of all the people dying because of over-taxation! Come on Greg, the only people that should be paying taxes are the ones that can afford it! The inequity in wealth distribution is one of the most egregious problem we have here, IMO.

 

You can't tell me that a program run by the government is going to do anyone any good or be cost-effective.

 

It'll do the uninsured good, who now number something like 50 mil?

 

What does human rights and the United Nations have to do with teaching kids math?

 

Well, usually you'll learn about the UN and human rights in history/current events, and math in math class. That solved that one, right? Or do you suggest we start schools where the only curriculum is..umm...math?

 

Why are there advertisements encouraging people to come and sign up for food stamps? Why should we be encouraging this? Shouldn't we be saying get a job and support your family? I understand that families fall on hard times and there are programs to help, but we shouldn't be out beating the brush signing people up. They are doing this to protect their budget line item in Congress. Apparently the number of families on the dole are going down, but these bureaucracies are trying to protect their little kingdoms.

 

 

Hey Greg, maybe you haven't noticed, but we're in the middle of some silly little thing called a recession. Dang inconvenient recessions! Unemployment just went up again, to a ten year high. Shoot. It couldn't be that there simply aren't JOBS right now, could it? And yes, these departments ARE trying to protect their budgets, when an administration has stepped in that's more hostile to the average working-class joe than any other since, well, the last republican in office!

[Dru]

PP I have enough Orgone thanks. I generate it frequently although I am having mixed results with the weather control methods outlined by Dr. Reich

 

As for the outcomes when care is sought, 1) what about preventative medicine? 2) the USA spends more per capita on health care than Canada does, and gets less results overall. Not that Canada is perfect, I think we are something like 30th in the world in that category, and the USA 35th. Sweden is like 2 I believe and Japan #1, in the top 5 anyways... No doubt some will doubt these statistics because they come from the UN and were printed in Scientific American, that left wing rag.

 

I should point out that the per capita figure refers to both taxation and personal spending. Canada's gov't spends about 70% of the budget on heath care and 2% on the military, in the US I believe the figures are reversed?

[iain]

I also thought the Canadian segment on unlocked doors very telling in Bowling for C.

[Greg_W]

"...Pursuit of Happiness" Some just pursue it more vigorously. Re-distribution of wealth is stealing.

 

The whole math/UN thing was to point out that this stuff is in math books. What does it have to do with math? Sure learn it in civics, but not math.

 

We disagree, obviously; you want government to solve all the problems but you complain about loss of liberties and rights. You are advocating a larger government. A larger government will become more invasive into our personal lives. What happened to people who didn't have jobs before all these programs went into affect? They worked any job they could; families helped each other.

 

GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE ANSWER.

[Dru]

thats the segment that all the Canadians laugh at, the vision of canada as paradise

[Greg_W]

Canada's gov't spends about ...2% on the military

Which is why most people don't believe that Canada is an actual country. Just kidding, thanks for the information. What about the waiting lists, though?

 

I like preventative health care, but you cannot compel people to live healthy if they don't want to. I know some insurance companies offer incentives for healthy living or keeping dr. visits to a minimum, etc.

[iain]

yeah but it looked good through the Moore filter. Especially those angels he interviewed in the mcdonalds parking lot or wherever that was.

[allthumbs]

Canada's a country? I thought it was part of England or France.

[sk]

GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE ANSWER.

 

this to me includes an over large military, secret service, along with over large welfare etc...

[Dru]

Waiting lists exist, yeah, but better that you have to wait a bit for a non-essential procedure, than you have to wait forever and maybe die if you dont have the $$$ required. I mean nobody has to wait 6 yrs for openheart surgery but maybe 6 months for a knee op or something I guess.

 

Anybody know a link to the John Rawls philosophy, he just died recently and apparently wrote some stuff on the greatest good theory?? Something to the effect that society should be designed to provide the best possible outcome for the worst possible scenario on the grounds that no one knows if they will possibly experience that worst case themselves or not, and therefore should suppose that they might.

[Dru]

And Britain and France thought it was part of the USA... Meanwhile we just went about our own business happy in the ignorance of others.

[iain]

you can buy Digestive biscuits and Ribena there so it is definitely part of Britain.

[allthumbs]

John Rawls

[Greg_W]

Something to the effect that society should be designed to provide the best possible outcome for the worst possible scenario on the grounds that no one knows if they will possibly experience that worst case themselves or not, and therefore should suppose that they might.

 

This sounds really, really scary, Dru. How can one justify such a theory of government? Talk about a blank check for the government tax extortionists. Shouldn't we all be doing this on a personal level and not depending on a government bailout? Sorry, this flies in the face of all the libertarian ideals that I believe in. Not to mention that even Congress couldn't justify another afront to the General Welfare Clause as large as this.

[Peter_Puget]

Clarification please!

 

Dru Quote:

"what about preventative medicine?"

 

PP Reply: What about it?

 

 

Dru quote:

the USA spends more per capita on health care than Canada does, and gets less results overall

 

PP reply: How does reasserting your premise count as argument?

 

Dru quote:

"I should point out that the per capita figure refers to both taxation and personal spending. Canada's gov't spends about 70% of the budget on heath care and 2% on the military, in the US I believe the figures are reversed?"

 

PP Reply:

What are these numbers! What budget?

 

PP

 

[sexual_chocolate]

Re-distribution of wealth is stealing.

 

Come on, Greg, don't be so grandiose. Are you saying we shouldn't have taxes? Taxes are and will always be a form of wealth-redistribution, with the rich needing to pay their fair share. Shit, even Bill Gates and his dad support fair taxation, lobbying hard against the removal of the inheritance tax. I guess you'll never really understand that we as people are in this thing together, this thing called life. Your approach seems to be usually limited to "me and mine". Well, that's your problem. Good Luck!

 

The whole math/UN thing was to point out that this stuff is in math books. What does it have to do with math? Sure learn it in civics, but not math.

 

Can you tell me what this is about about? Haven't heard of it....

 

We disagree, obviously; you want government to solve all the problems....

 

Again, please don't be so grandiose. I don't expect the government to "solve all" our problems, but it can do more than it's doing. Right now the government works mainly to "solve all" the problems of the wealthy corporate elites; I don't think one can reasonably deny this. I personally believe in the motto: "A government by the people, for the people." And yes, the only way this can be accomplished is by active participation. And you know what's infuriating? Our voter turn-out is pretty pathetic, right? Well, if the damn people who don't vote could be gotten to the polls, the majority of them would vote more liberal, as in Democrat! (This was a study I read during the last election. Can't remember where.) Damn lazy Democratic whiners! You're so right in this case, Greg.

 

What happened to people who didn't have jobs before all these programs went into affect? They worked any job they could; families helped each other.

 

I'd have a hard time thinking you'd be lining up to help the families in need, greg. There are plenty of families in need already, but all I hear from you is name-calling: "lazy welfare moms!" Such generalizations, greg!

[Dru]

I cannot reply further this thread just jumped my shark.

[Peter_Puget]

Canada spends only about 9% of its GDP on healthcare as against America's 14%.(Source: New Republic)

Comments:

a) This gap is missleading. For example, America's 14% figure includes the cost of the vast American medical research program. The budget of the National Institutes of Health alone - $27 billion in fiscal 2003 ; is larger than the total healthcare expenditures of the provinces of Ontario and Quebec combined. (Together these provinces contain over 50% of the country's population)Canada does little medical research. As in defense, Canada leaches for free on America's costly efforts.

b) Much of the differential between the cost of the Canadian and American systems is achieved reducing the the incomes of doctors and nurses.

c). The average age of the Canadian population is lower than that of the United States. There is less obesity in Canada, fewer premature births, fewer victims of assault and attempted homicide. Canadians also drive fewer miles per year than Americans. Even under exactly identical health-care policy regimes, one would expect health-care expenditure in the United States to be significantly higher than in Canada. Increasing the price of gas and taxation on alcohol and cigarettes will increase lifespans.

 

[iain]

Dammit where is the goat in all of this? Surely alarms have been ringing over in sahammamaiash

[freeclimb9]

The average age of the Canadian population is lower than that of the United States.

More so in the winter after the snowbirds fly.

[sexual_chocolate]

And your point is....?