RETRO

[HeadSpace]

wondering what the going opinion is on adding a bolt to a climb i had cleaned and led on natural gear, said gear being two equalized sliders(red&gold) protecting the crux. any suggestions?

[Dru]

give more data like how far crux is above next piece etc. also where route is and how many ascents it has recieved since you put it up. Also would newly available gear like ZeroCams be more bomber than sketchy slider nuts or could you fix a piton or whatever.

[Greg_W]

Is the bolt going to protect the crux? If so, it sounds like there is a crack right there that takes gear.

 

It also depends on the existing ethics of the area.

[TimL]

Smack in a pin

[HeadSpace]

the climb is a the pearly gates. viktor's preliminary topos call it "plucking the harp", it's going in the guide book as "purgatory". as far as i know it has only seen 2 ascents including the first. it starts in a o.w. climbs up 20' and traverses left on a finger tip seam taking blue and purple tcu's for 10' or so. you get a .75 cam in after the traverse, pulling the roof is where the sliders go in. i think the gear is good, but how many people carry sliders around anyway? the o.w. through the roof is 10+.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

The above are all good considerations. Unless the area is under the influence of a hardcore trad ethic, though, it's your route, so do whatcha want with it. And bugger the piton idea. If you're going to place something meant as a permanent piece, place something that's going to be bomber, i.e. a bolt. It's kind of silly to try and keep the route more "trad" by adding old-school gear that's going to be permanent anyway. Fixed gear is fixed gear, so make it stonker.

 

[Greg_W]

i think the gear is good, but how many people carry sliders around anyway?

 

If people want to climb a given route, they will equip themselves accordingly. IMO this shouldn't be a consideration in your decision-making process. It goes clean, as you said, so why the bolt? Also, sounds like you want to put a bolt next to a crack - good recipe for a chop-o-rama in that neighborhood.

[HeadSpace]

i would agree, a bolt over a pin would be bomber. the route would likely see more traffic with a bolt in place. anyway it's just a crag climb . thanks for the comments.

[Peter_Puget]

Here are some things I would consider:

 

1. Is the route worthy of a fixed piece? Ie: is it easily TR'd; is the climbing good?

2. Did your cleaning (ie detailed preinspection) of the route significantly ease the placement of the equalized pieces?

3. Will the accumulation of grime make these placements not viable in the future?

4 What happens if the piece fails?

5 Will a pin be stolen or rusty to the point of uselessness in a year or two?

 

Since you have the best info, don't let this board weigh too much in your decision!

 

PP

 

[Peter_Puget]

One more thing to consider: How fun is Monkey Lip to climb with all those rusty pins?

[HeadSpace]

if the sliders failed you'd take a small whip. i just feel the climb may be out of character with the rest of the area and a bolt would entice peolpe to try it. hey ,i'm baised what can i say?

[Greg_W]

Would the bolt make the climb easier; as in, easier to move through the crux because the leader just clips a bolt? Your description of the first ascent sounds well-done. Why cheapen later ascents or lower the bar?

 

How long do you think your bolt will last? Aren't there too many bolts in that valley already?

[Highlander]

My opinion is to leave it along. If your only looking at taking a small whip, then whats the need for a chicken bolt. The route will be more memorable with out the bolt and will totaly change the nature of the climb.

[E-rock]

I'd try it without the bolt. Probably the BEST place for an OW is in a classic hand-crack area. It's going to see more traffice than it ever would were it off by itself somewhere, or next to a bunch of other wide cracks. Small whippers are part of life.

[Pencil_Pusher]

Or, imagine this, the hardcore climber could simply not clip the antagonistic bolt and use those sliders instead.

[Greg_W]

My guess is that it would get chopped before said hardcore climber got the chance to exercise the option.

[plexus]

If ppl didn't carry sliders and fell from the crux, what would the fall be like? Deathdrop? If it was my line and I climbed it sans a bolt, I'd make other people experience the quiver-fest as well. Don't pander down to the lowest denomenator.

 

If it was blank slab for 30+ feet, then I'd think a bolt would be needed. However since you can get gear in, albeit not common gear, I'd leave it alone.

[ScottP]

Or, imagine this, the hardcore climber could simply not clip the antagonistic bolt and use those sliders instead.

 

I'm sorry, but this is, imo, the DUMBEST argument for retrobolting.

 

 

Or imagine this, the weeney climber could just not climb the routes with a little boldness in them.

[E-rock]

Plexus, if it's a small whip IF the sliders PULL, it's also a small whip if you don't place the sliders, same dif.

[Slabinator]

My apologies to Mr Headspace.

my mistake.

 

Certainly not the first time I've been mistaken

 

leave it boltless.

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2002 by Slabinator

[sexual_chocolate]

I don't think he was necessarily fishing for retrosaurus's take, I think he simply meant retrobolting????

 

Headspace, how hard is this section, and how far behind you is the last bomber pro? Are you sure only a slider would work?

 

Part of the fun of climbing sometimes is figuring out how to get pro in. Think: grit in Britain.

 

There are many different styles of climbing, and I truly truly believe that not all climbs should be made into oversimplified lowest common denominator clip-ups. If you already climbed it in a particular style, why would you want to change it for those that will try in the future? If you're worried about safety, well, climbing is inherently dangerous, and for many, that's part of the appeal! Let others decide if they are up for the challenge. That's my $.02.

[Off_White]

Slab:

 

Like you, when I saw the subject I assumed it was addressed to Mitch, aka Retrosaurus. After I read the post, I came to the conlusion it referred to retro-bolting, and its merely circumstance that the activity and the person are syntactically related.

 

Thats not to say it isn't at least partly a troll, since this is a hot button topic around here. There's no denying the route would be more popular with a thought-free well protected crux, but the route would also mean more as an accomplishment to the leader without the bolt. If it were my route, I'd be inclined to leave it as is and make sure the guide notes the need for sliders (which aren't standard on many people's racks around here). If I had rapped, cleaned, and top-roped the route before leading it, I'd make sure a couple people with the appropriate experience led it as an onsight before I assigned the grade: familiarity can make a huge difference.

[HeadSpace]

the heading "RETRO" was in reference to retro-bolting. if mitch, whom i do not know, chose to post uner this thread, i'd welcome his comments as much as anyone else's. let me say that the o.w. had seen a previous ascent, there was a pin at the top of it and i clipped it, at that point "purgatory" goes left. micth's line goes up and right at the pin if i'm not mistaken. i wasn't trying to fan any flames around here. this was a topic i had brought up with some friends this season. just looking for a broader opinion base and i sure did get one. all things being said, i'll let the chips fall where they may. the gear worked for me, it will work for someone else. thanks

[sexual_chocolate]

Cool. Seems like a decent choice to me.

 

Props on the FA, by the way.

[texplorer]

Thanks for inquiring Headspace,

I don't have really anything to add except I'm glad your going to leave the climb boltless. Sounded like a grand adventure