A Scout is:

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Luckily the constitution protects me from this. Phew!

 

You sure about that? You never had a teacher, boss, VP, company where someone in charge of your future or livelihood at the time was not a person of faith who made decisions based on that faith, including those relating to work and you?

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Well, there's goofy, and there's a violation of the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution.

 

A pic of Jesus in a public school is a tax payer funded endorsement of Christianity - over all other religions, and that is discriminatory, plain and simple.

 

It's not the same as "hey, I don't like tight black jeans and feaux car mechanic jackets". Particularly if you're an atheist, gay, Muslim, Jew, or a whole host of other kids who really shouldn't have to have Our Blessed White Savior staring down at them while attending compulsary, tax funded education owned and managed by the State. No, not so much.

Edited February 8, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

I have zero interest in being under the rule of someone who will make administrative decisions based on what the bible says.

 

 

 

You probably have been, are, and will be many more times in the future. That's life.

 

 

And here's one case where life, through the actions of a vigilant and dedicated group of people, can and will get better. EGO MANIAC ALERT: Some of us believe that injustice need not be tolerated, and act accordingly.

[tvashtarkatena]

Anyhoo, the pic's coming down. The 'historical' argument is a joke (I'm reminded of the PA Intelligent Design case and how bad those arguments were after the ACLU cleaned some Kristian clock - this one is even more amateur hour) and won't wash...at all.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Scouting was fun, and got me into the outdoors. Looking back now that I climb, they didn't teach us very much about camping/backpacking - it was all more trial and error, very disorganized. I didn't get my kids into scouting as I'd rather go out with them on my own, at our own pace (faster than what you'd get otherwise), and skip a lot of the quasi-militaristic aspect to it.

 

Don't like that Scouts want you to profess faith in a higher being, or be openly gay? Don't join. You can find plenty of other organizations elsewhere that'll get you into the outdoors.

[tvashtarkatena]

Let's also not confuse the ACLU's agenda, which is to end State establishment of religion (hmmm...always seems to be just one sect trying to back-door their way in, too) versus mine (EMA:) which is to extinguish all deity based religiosity for eternity.

[rob]

My father wouldn't let me join the scouts because they were too Christian. I was an Indian guide instead.

[tvashtarkatena]

Spoken like a true Warrior for Justice. Actually, since they're just kids, I think they oughta get their little asses kicked for stirring up trouble, too.

 

Sounds an awful lot like: don't like America? (our wars, economic disparity, religion in politics, gluttonous resource use, prison nation, etc...)

 

So, leave!

 

Under no circumstances should you be an agent of change. THINGS ARE JUST FINE. The poor little gays can just join the Girl Scouts.

 

And actually, in most places Scouting IS the only outdoors game in town. It certainly was in my little town. The whole country isn't Seattle.

Edited February 8, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[rob]

Under no circumstances should be be an agent of change. THINGS ARE JUST FINE. The poor little gays can just join the Girl Scouts.

 

 

 

That kind of apathy is also prevalent in the gun debate..." crime is gonna happen, just get used to it."

[KaskadskyjKozak]

My father wouldn't let me join the scouts because they were too Christian. I was an Indian guide instead.

 

The extent of "Christianity" in my experience was in reciting the Scout oath (much like the Pledge of Allegiance) from time to time, and in having that ONE question posed to me at the Eagle Scout review - "do you believe in a higher power". Nothing Christian, just a belief in a God, and it would only have blocked me from becoming an Eagle Scout. Keep your mouth shut and have fun and you can join and participate in the scouts just fine.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Under no circumstances should be be an agent of change. THINGS ARE JUST FINE. The poor little gays can just join the Girl Scouts.

 

 

 

That kind of apathy is also prevalent in the gun debate..." crime is gonna happen, just get used to it."

 

Since two thirds of all gun deaths are suicide, perhaps we should promote gun ownership to further cull that population a bit. Perhaps its the waiting...you know, for the onslaught, that drives them over the edge.

 

Or not getting laid.

 

More study needed!

 

[denalidave]

i know what you mean, i tried to join the black panthers

Maybe the ACLU can represent when you sue them?

[tvashtarkatena]

My father wouldn't let me join the scouts because they were too Christian. I was an Indian guide instead.

 

The extent of "Christianity" in my experience was in reciting the Scout oath (much like the Pledge of Allegiance) from time to time, and in having that ONE question posed to me at the Eagle Scout review - "do you believe in a higher power". Nothing Christian, just a belief in a God, and it would only have blocked me from becoming an Eagle Scout. Keep your mouth shut and have fun and you can join and participate in the scouts just fine.

 

Yeah, just lie about the most fundamental aspects of your being.

 

Excellent parenting philosophy. Your kids'll make great hedge fund managers, although, if family dynamics plays out the way it usually does, they'll be starting their own hippy commune, instead.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

i know what you mean, i tried to join the black panthers

Maybe the ACLU can represent when you sue them?

 

Only if he was excluded because he drew naked pictures of little boys. That's a case they'd have to get on.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

BTW, KKK, we've got something in common.

 

Yo, Eagle Scout ovah heuh!

 

Didn't kill God until 3 years later.

 

Very likely that I've got more merit badges than you, given that I'm a bit quicker on the uptake, you know?

Edited February 8, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[rob]

Boy, just keep your mouth shut and you'll be fine.

 

 

yeah, that's the culture I want to live in

[tvashtarkatena]

In my world, when a kid wants to go hiking and camping, ya just take em out hiking or camping.

 

No grilling a 9 year old re: their secret feelings for Sponge Bob or whether or not they know the script for a 12 step program.

 

Invite, don't reject.

 

Not hard.

Edited February 8, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[rob]

I'm continually impressed that Christians managed to turn Jesus into a white guy

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Boy, just keep your mouth shut and you'll be fine.

 

 

yeah, that's the culture I want to live in

 

You know what I'm talking about Rob. But have your fun.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I'm continually impressed that Christians managed to turn Jesus into a white guy

 

He is a white guy. I consider Middle Eastern folks to be white, don't you? I mean, if not, what color are they? Just curious.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Boy, just keep your mouth shut and you'll be fine.

 

 

yeah, that's the culture I want to live in

 

You know what I'm talking about Rob. But have your fun.

 

Person 1: I'm agnostic/atheist, and I want to be in the scouts. Most of the time it never comes up. Well, pretty much never. So, I pick my battles and enjoy the experience there since it is 99.99% about things other than religion

 

Person 2: I'm a loud-mouthed obnoxious ass. I know the Scouts require to profess a faith in some God, so I'll openly, constantly raise a stink about it.

 

Are you person 2, Rob? I know TTK is.

[tvashtarkatena]

I'm continually impressed that Christians managed to turn Jesus into a white guy

 

He is a white guy. I consider Middle Eastern folks to be white, don't you? I mean, if not, what color are they? Just curious.

 

Yeah, yeah, who gives a fuck. The guy likely never existed, but if he did, he probably was rocking it a bit darker all around.

 

I'm still kicking myself for not offering to buy the Rastaman Jesus pic from off the wall of that barber shop in Dominica. Seemed like it might be a bit of a crass move...plus I didn't have a whole lot of extra cargo space in the kayak, but I sure wanted that thing bad.

Edited February 8, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

Boy, just keep your mouth shut and you'll be fine.

 

 

yeah, that's the culture I want to live in

 

You know what I'm talking about Rob. But have your fun.

 

Person 1: I'm agnostic/atheist, and I want to be in the scouts. Most of the time it never comes up. Well, pretty much never. So, I pick my battles and enjoy the experience there since it is 99.99% about things other than religion

 

Person 2: I'm a loud-mouthed obnoxious ass. I know the Scouts require to profess a faith in some God, so I'll openly, constantly raise a stink about it.

 

Are you person 2, Rob? I know TTK is.

 

These are kids we're talking about here, KKK. Like, 9 year olds. And it really isn't healthy to condone lying with kids. They'll do enough of it on their own without any encouragement. More importantly, it's really important not to teach them that discrimination is just fine - to legitimize it.

 

I would never have dreamed about lying about belief in God or lack thereof at that age. I also would not have understood the need to discriminate - that would have hurt a lot at that age. I also was taught that standing up for what you believe and simply being honest is not obnoxious. But hey, fuck the little uppity faggot, right?

 

Can you not be a complete tool for even one second?

 

Here's hoping, for the rest of us, that your kids put as much stock into what you teach as we do here, cuz you shit is right out of Never Fucking Do This With A Kid manual.

Edited February 8, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[denalidave]

Boy, just keep your mouth shut and you'll be fine.

 

 

yeah, that's the culture I want to live in

 

You know what I'm talking about Rob. But have your fun.

Can you not be a complete tool for even one second?

Pot = kettle black. Fuk'n tool...

[olyclimber]

Boy, just keep your mouth shut and you'll be fine.

 

 

yeah, that's the culture I want to live in

 

You know what I'm talking about Rob. But have your fun.

 

Person 1: I'm agnostic/atheist, and I want to be in the scouts. Most of the time it never comes up. Well, pretty much never. So, I pick my battles and enjoy the experience there since it is 99.99% about things other than religion

 

Person 2: I'm a loud-mouthed obnoxious ass. I know the Scouts require to profess a faith in some God, so I'll openly, constantly raise a stink about it.

 

Are you person 2, Rob? I know TTK is.

 

I'm also an Ego Scout/Order of the Arrow dude. It seems like you've constructed an unnecessary box here. You say above to "just shut up and the things you object to and enjoy it"...as if there is no way to object to what the Scouts teach without being an obnoxious ass. Fact is that the Scouts do teach ideals to impressionable young men....it is a main function actually, and it is possible to object to some of the more antiquated ideals without wanting to blow up the whole org or just quit it.

Ideas and conceptions evolve. We mostly don't keep slaves anymore. Women vote. Things change. If the Scouts don't, they will become irrelevant or viewed as bigoted. Ignoring that isn't going to help the Scouts.