Gear for guiding on Mt Shasta

[TheNumberNine]

Hi Folks,

 

I'll be guiding on Mt. Shasta this summer with Shasta Mountain Guides.. Pretty stoked and having a hard time focusing on my last month of college...(I'm sitting in my python programming class right now)

 

Anyway...

 

I worked my first trip this last weekend and guided on Casaval Ridge. It was a great climb but I found myself pondering a few items in my arsenal.

 

Right now I'm rocking scarpa invernos. They are quite heavy but I do like the fact that they are absolute tanks.

 

What do ya'll think about me throwing down some cash on some la sportiva nepal evos? Will my dogs be thanking me enough to make up for the dent in the wallet? Will they last long enough for me to use them for a few seasons assuming I get in 20-30 summits this season?

 

Also, does anyone have any experience with the Black Diamond Firstlight tent? I'm in the market for a super lightweight 4 season tent that I can use on Aconcagua this winter.

 

Please commence spraying now.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2012 by TheNumberNine

[Jon H]

You might consider asking your fellow guides what boots they use to guide full time.

 

And yeah, the Firstlight is a popular choice for Aconcagua although, you'll definitely need to guyline it out to the max (and build windbreaks out of rocks and/or snow as available) if the storms start getting bad.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Jon H

[TheNumberNine]

I seem to get mixed reviews on the boots... Though it seems that the nepal evos are a pretty standard choice. Other recommendations have been the scarpa phantom guide, la sportiva batura evo, and of course the olympus mons for those frigid days at horse camp :-p

[DPS]

LS Nepal Evos are kind of the gold standard for leather mountaineering boots. If LS fits your feet they are a good choice. If you have wider dogs Scarpa may offer a better fit. The comparable boot would be the Mont Blanc. You will probably appreciate leather boots later in the season and you already have warm plastics for cold, early season trips.

[cdmike112]

You should be able to apply for a prodeal through la sportiva which will save you a fair amount of cash.

Edited May 15, 2012 by cdmike112

[bstach]

I spent a few summer guiding when I was a younger man...my employer facilitated pro-deals with a number of vendors and I was able to get plenty of good advice from my co-guides.

 

Considering you will be in them all day, everyday, for a large portion of your summer, boots you will be happy in are an advisable investment. Unfortunately I cannot comment on the specific boots in your OP.

 

Good luck.

[NotMessner]

Has anyone tried double-poling the Firstlight in heavy winds?

[DPS]

Has anyone tried double-poling the Firstlight in heavy winds?

 

I haven't, but if you carry an extra set of poles, wouldn't that increase the weight of the Firstlight up to an inherently sturdier tent such as BD I Tent of ID MK1 Lite?

Edited May 16, 2012 by DPS

[SeanO]

I looked into double poling the Firstlight, but determined that unless you already own one, a better purchase would be an I-Tent or an Eldorado if you're concerned about being in high enough winds to necessitate two poles. The Eldo and I-Tent come with thicker poles and much more durable fabric, at about 1.5lbs more weight. An extra set of poles would weigh around 1 lb. for the Firstlight and cost around $100.

[NotMessner]

Although, you can leave the 1 lb pole set at home, but you can't leave behind the extra 1.5 lbs of thick poles and heavier fabric.

[SeanO]

My guess (as a soon to be ex-Firstlight owner) is that the fabric would fail if you took it into an environment where you needed double poles. It's a somewhat fragile tent.

 

If you're only going to own one 4 season two-man dome, and want to get something that'll work in high wind conditions, it makes more sense to sacrifice the 1.5lbs. for a much more sturdy tent like the Eldo or I-Tent.

 

But if light and fast is your top priority, perhaps a modular pole system is for you. Give it a shot and report back.

[genepires]

if you will be doing weeklong courses with the chance of precip, the leathers will be a poor choice. if you get some leather boots THAT FIT, keep the plastics for those foul weather trips. The plastics will be useful for acon-choss-ua too. Don't be that guy who goes to acon with leather boots. Put everything in your favor when choosing gear. Pick reliable and durable and warm.

 

your acon-choss-ua tent should be absolute bomber. horrible winds are the norm. I would rather haul a ve25 and know that my shelter will withstand what the mountain will dish out. (maybe) Even with the rock walls and great anchoring, the tents take a beating. You will spend lot of money going down there and have your summit taken away due to LW gear failure will suck. Plus the guy points on the firstlight are too low on the body.

 

back to guiding on shasta, can you describe the kind of work you will be doing?

[TheNumberNine]

Genepires, thanks for the solid advice.

 

 

Shasta will consist of 3 day long summit climbs on Avy gulch, west face, hotlum bolam, etc. I doubt I'll be working any expedition seminars that go longer than 4 days.

 

I 'assistant guided' my first trip on Casaval Ridge last weekend and had an absolutely superb climb. Great clients, conditions, and weather.

 

I'm leaning towards leathers because I know that later into the season the approaches to base camps are going to be a lot of trail hiking and probably a lot of scrambling up loose scree trails.. I'd rather not be clunking around in plastic boots all summer.

 

I'm planning on rocking my scarpa invernos with 40 below overboots on aconcagua. We're thinking of doing the polish direct which looks like it will be a nice dose of steepish snow and ice climbing. I used that boot setup on Denali last June/July and had toasty feet 84% of the time.

 

As for the firstlight... I feel like it will be the perfect tent for cascade climbs i.e. shasta, rainier, hood and for any alpine climbs that require a fast and light approach. I met up and schemed with my climbing partner last night and he said he would shell out for a beefy tent for aconcagua so that might not be a huge concern...

 

What do you think of the black diamond I-tent?

 

It's supposed to be pretty bomber...

Edited May 18, 2012 by TheNumberNine

[genepires]

You might need a "work" tent and a "personal play" tent. work tent may need to withstand rain for days. Personal play tent does not as most people just go home. Guided trips don't have that option. It doesn't have to be expensive or heavy either to be a good work tent. I used a light MEC 3 season double wall tent for many years. There are even more options for LW 3 season tents now just make sure it has several guye points (>6). prodeal or even used. this tent will get UV damage and trashed so why bring a pricey single wall style tent? No single wall tent is "good" in a rain shower.

 

I have a older generation of the LS evo nepal top called the nepal extreme. Can't say if they are the same but prolly close. I wouldn't want to walk a long way in them on trails. They are still clunky. I used the old scarpa freney (blue ones) a long time and they worked much better. I think they are lower cut. If you want a summer work boot, I think there are better options out there. More towards walking and less towards vertical ice performance. Too early for me to come up with examples now. garmont towers and the new freneys amongst others.

 

cheap looking gear might earn sympathy from clients and yield better tips.

 

 

[Ed_Hobbick]

"cheap looking gear might earn sympathy from clients and yield better tips."

 

I've climbed with guides here and there over the years as well as on my own and I've seen a few of them try to gain sympathy in this way. It is fairly easy for a client to pick up on this tactic and if they do, they will quickly loose some of the respect they had for you initially. It might gain you a bigger tip, but it would come with a loss of hard won respect. I would just ask myself what is more important and remember that you are representing the company your working for as well as and perhaps more importantly the mountain guides of America who have worked hard to gain the respect that you hold now.

[Pwelco]

A new full insert for your Invernos can lighten them quite a bit, they did mine and are a lot warmer and more comfortable. Still one of the best boots out there. I have a set of Kayland M11's that I like but colder weather can leave me wishing I had worn my Scarpas...

[TheNumberNine]

A lot of great insight here...

 

I'm really digging the I-tent just because of the compromise between tough materials and packability/lightness. Seems to be the way to go if I was thinking of getting the firstlight and I want to bring the tent to Aconcagua.

 

For now the scarpas wil have to do as my budget doesn't allow for me to blow tons of money on new stuff.. New boots will probably come in the form of nepal evos though (for summer cascade climbs)

 

As for the whole cheap gear thing... I have tendency to naturally gravitate towards nice gear. I feel like wearing cheap gear as a guide makes you look pretty noobish and essentially nullifies any gear advice you might give clients. Besides, isn't climbing mostly about looking good anyway?

Edited May 18, 2012 by TheNumberNine

[Raindawg]

 

 

"cheap looking gear might earn sympathy from clients and yield better tips."

 

I've climbed with guides here and there over the years as well as on my own and I've seen a few of them try to gain sympathy in this way. It is fairly easy for a client to pick up on this tactic and if they do, they will quickly loose some of the respect they had for you initially. It might gain you a bigger tip, but it would come with a loss of hard won respect. I would just ask myself what is more important and remember that you are representing the company your working for as well as and perhaps more importantly the mountain guides of America who have worked hard to gain the respect that you hold now.

 

 

I guided for years and never accepted a cash tip from a client. Dinner and beers? Yes. Cash, no. Nor was I aware that anyone else I worked with took monetary "tips". Tips might be a tradition elsewhere (the Alps, Nepal, etc.), but it comes off to me like charity. (Not that tip-receiving folk like restaurant waiters necessarily beg for charity, but it's a long-established tradition to tip in their industry.)

 

Guides should be climbing role-models for their clients, who will take cues from them, and guides should be outfitted with good gear. If you can't afford it, get a pro-deal or freebies rather than giving the appearance of being a pathetic beggar; many of the companies know that the clients will make gear purchases based on what the guide uses.

 

[Tennessee]

 

 

 

I guided for years and never accepted a cash tip from a client. Dinner and beers? Yes. Cash, no. Nor was I aware that anyone else I worked with took monetary "tips". Tips might be a tradition elsewhere (the Alps, Nepal, etc.), but it comes off to me like charity. (Not that tip-receiving folk like restaurant waiters necessarily beg for charity, but it's a long-established tradition to tip in their industry.)

 

I've worked in the guiding industry for 12 years and I've never heard a single guide say that they didn't accept cash tips. Contrary to what you said, I believe that tipping a mountain guide is absolutely a long established tradition. Not that you get a tip on every trip, but certainly the majority of trips. It isn't expected, but definitely appreciated. Someone serving you food for an hour compared to someone showing you a good time in the mountains, possibly for several days or weeks, keeping you safe and maybe getting to a summit definitely seems like a tipping situation to me. Fishing guides and raft guides certainly receive tips. Working as a guide and not accepting tips is fine, but I'd say you were out of touch with your fellow guides if you weren't aware of them accepting cash tips. Unless maybe it was a really long time ago (?).

 

Oh and on the boots and tent, Mr. Pires has good advice. I'd use plastics and bomber tent for rainy/stormy/early season trips and leather boots and lightweight tent for good weather and firm snow. I use a bibler awahnee tent and la sportiva Nuptses for bad weather/soft snow. And I have a first light tent and kayland super rocks for good weather and/or climbs that entail rock and snow. I like the Awahnee better than the I-tent because the vestibule and door are much bigger and easier to get into and out of, and vents better in hot weather.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Tennessee

[TheNumberNine]

I wonder how much respect a puma track-suit and a pair of nike hightops wrapped in plastic safeway bags would gain? Possibly unwavering faith and a willingness to follow you up into the worst storm of the century...Yeah... I like that idea...

[Ed_Hobbick]

A... yeah. Your not a real guide are you?

 

[TheNumberNine]

I kid, I kid.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2012 by TheNumberNine

[Raindawg]

 

 

 

I guided for years and never accepted a cash tip from a client. Dinner and beers? Yes. Cash, no. Nor was I aware that anyone else I worked with took monetary "tips". Tips might be a tradition elsewhere (the Alps, Nepal, etc.), but it comes off to me like charity. (Not that tip-receiving folk like restaurant waiters necessarily beg for charity, but it's a long-established tradition to tip in their industry.)

 

I've worked in the guiding industry for 12 years and I've never heard a single guide say that they didn't accept cash tips. Contrary to what you said, I believe that tipping a mountain guide is absolutely a long established tradition. Not that you get a tip on every trip, but certainly the majority of trips. It isn't expected, but definitely appreciated..... Fishing guides and raft guides certainly receive tips. Working as a guide and not accepting tips is fine, but I'd say you were out of touch with your fellow guides if you weren't aware of them accepting cash tips. Unless maybe it was a really long time ago (?).

 

It could be that times have changed since I was last full-time active in that business twenty years ago. And as I said, I never knew anyone who at least admitted to taking additional money from a client. I don't tip my physician, lawyer or professor, all of whom are specialized professionals as are mountain guides. And if you're a guide and you don't think you're being paid enough so you feel that you need to rely on tips...enjoy the fact that you're living a lot of folk's dream, i.e., to get paid to go climbing for a few months of the year...and then during the other months, find another job. Lots of people do that. It's a lifestyle, and not a bad one. If I was still in the business, I'd still refuse a tip.

[genepires]

"cheap looking gear might earn sympathy from clients and yield better tips."

 

I've climbed with guides here and there over the years as well as on my own and I've seen a few of them try to gain sympathy in this way. It is fairly easy for a client to pick up on this tactic and if they do, they will quickly loose some of the respect they had for you initially. It might gain you a bigger tip, but it would come with a loss of hard won respect. I would just ask myself what is more important and remember that you are representing the company your working for as well as and perhaps more importantly the mountain guides of America who have worked hard to gain the respect that you hold now.

 

A... yeah. Your not a real guide are you?

 

The idea of jokes is hard for you to understand. I thought the little happy face would show that. Lighten up a bit.

[Ed_Hobbick]

I was kidding, I should have added the smiley face. I agree it can be hard to tell sometimes.