Dear Mr. Ex President Clinton:

[AlpineK]

I'm a little disapointed that none of you righty guys wants to lecture me about how misunderstood Nixon was.

[Fairweather]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AlpineK:

I'm a little disapointed that none of you righty guys wants to lecture me about how misunderstood Nixon was.

---

So many of Nixon's actions are not defensible that I won't even try. Especially his attempt to control a free market economy with a price/wage freeze.

 

The guy was paranoid. Anti Semitic. Power Hungry.

 

But if I had to chose between Nixon and McGovern again......well I was too young to vote back then, but it would be a tough choice.

 

Hey, how about JFK being all doped up in the White House? Hookers and prescription pills. A real Democratic icon? At least he had the smarts to know that cutting taxes would stimulate the economy!

[MtnGoat]

ditto on nixon. unacceptable actions to dictate prices and wages. Unacceptable criminal acts amply documented. No way to defend his actions, thus he could resign, or be impeached, his choice. The only thing that can be said in his favor is he resigned rather than further disgrace the presidency, something a different party can't say about one of their own.

[Winter]

Finally a promise GW Bush didn't break.

 

[MtnGoat]

"I asked whether you believe that our goal in the war against terrorism is to make America less threatened by terrorist attack."

 

yes

 

"I also asked whether you believe that waging wars in the region will further this objectives."

 

yes, though not necessarily totally eliminate it. Individuals with drive and creativity will still be able to wreak havoc if they so choose. That people can use simple weapons to cause problems does not mean we can ignore other means as well.

 

This is not an either/or situation, we must work on *all* fronts at once. I can't see a reason not to disarm Iraq *and* work on domestic antiterrorism *and* cut off financial sources and training resources where possible *and* work towards improving relations with other nations at the same time. Of course these will sometimes be at conflict with each other, but that's how it goes.

 

I can agree some actions we take may be viewed with hostility or disdain, yet they may still be necessary.

[Matt]

MtnGoat--

 

I'm curious, do you think it's worth it to sacrifice American civil liberites in the name of Homeland Security?

[mattp]

I agree that we may sometimes need to take action - even unilatteral action - that engenders disdain or hostility. However, in the war on terrorism and in the war against Iraq I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot and are only going to cause mass suffering in order to further some narrow-minded and undisclosed business objecives. I know I'm not going to convince you of this, however, especially if you believe what I see as the most preposterous lies possible. I just wondered whether you are able to question any of the "program" even in the tiniest way. It sounds like not.

[sexual_chocolate]

Hey mtgoat, I'm still wanting to know if you think fuel efficiency standards should be federally mandated, since you seemed to agree with the principle of better fuel efficiency.

[MtnGoat]

"I'm curious, do you think it's worth it to sacrifice American civil liberites in the name of Homeland Security?"

 

depends on the liberties in question, doesn't it? Everyone with any political goals is usually going to end up sacrificing someones civil liberties, so i'll say it may be acceptable in some cases and not in others since I don't have any specifics to work with.

 

Any yes or no I give without them doesn't mean much!

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

DEAD KENNEDYS LYRICS

 

"Kinky Sex Makes The World Go 'Round"

 

Greetings:This is the Secretary of War at the State Department

of the United States

We have a problem.

The companies want something done about this sluggish

world economic situation

Profits have been running a little thin lately

and we need to stimulate some growth

Now we know

there's an alarmingly high number of young people roaming

around in your country with nothing to do but stir up trouble

for the police and damage private property.

It doesn't look like they'll ever get a job

It's about time we did something constructive with these people

We've got thousands of 'em here too. They're crawling all over

The companies think it's time we all sit down, have a serious get-together-

And start another war

The President?

He loves the idea! All those missiles streaming overhead to and fro

Napalm

People running down the road, skin on fire

The Soviets seem up for it:

The Kremlin's been itching for the real thing for years.

Hell, Afghanistan's no fun

So whadya say?

We don't even have to win this war.

We just want to cut down on some of this excess population

Now look. Just start up a draft; draft as many of those people as you can.

We'll call up every last youngster we can get our hands on,

hand 'em some speed, give 'em an hour or two to learn how to use

an automatic rifle and send 'em on their way

Libya? El Salvador? How 'bout Northern Ireland?

Or a "moderately repressive regime" in South America?

We'll just cook up a good Soviet threat story

in the Middle East-we need that oil

We had Libya all ready to go and Colonel Khadafy's hit squad

didn't even show up. I tell ya

That man is unreliable.

The Kremlin had their fingers on the button just like we did for that one

Now just think for a minute-We can make this war so big-so BIG

The more people we kill in this war, the more the economy will prosper

We can get rid of practically everybody on your dole queue if we plan this right.

Take every loafer on welfare right off our computer rolls

Now don't worry about demonstrations-just pump up your drug supply.

So many people have hooked themselves on heroin

and amphetamines since we took over, it's just like Vietnam.

We had everybody so busy with LSD they never got too strong.

Kept the war functioning just fine

It's easy.

We've got our college kids so interested in beer

they don't even care if we start manufacturing germ bombs again.

Put a nuclear stockpile in their back yard,

they wouldn't even know what it looked like

So how 'bout it? Look-War is money.

The arms manufacturers tell me unless

we get our bomb factories up to full production

the whole economy is going to collapse

The Soviets are in the same boat.

We all agree the time has come for the big one, so whadya say?!?

That's excellent. We knew you'd agree

The companies will be very pleased.

---

The most vocal right-wing, pro-war, pro-gun, pro-violence, anti-gay, anti-environment guy on the board is quoting the Dead Kennedys.

 

Fucking dumbass!

 

You're probably all for the "new" DKs too, huh?

[ScottP]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Caveman:

Scott, I didn't write that you nitwit. (snip)

---

Your name is on it.

[MtnGoat]

"However, in the war on terrorism and in the war against Iraq I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot"

 

We'll have to disgree on this one.

 

"and are only going to cause mass suffering in order to further some narrow-minded and undisclosed business objecives."

 

There are lots of reasons something can be "undisclosed", one of which is, there could be nothing secret here in the first place.

 

"I know I'm not going to convince you of this, however, especially if you believe what I see as the most preposterous lies possible."

 

How bout some of those lies? I can't say you'll agree with my answers to you about them, and I expect I know what they are, but what the heck, I'd rather see them than operate on assumptions.

 

"I just wondered whether you are able to question any of the "program" even in the tiniest way. It sounds like not."

 

I am able to do so, I just don't see anything I do question presented here in our discussion. For one thing, our continued support of the Saudis troubles me on this front, but since I have not followed what, if any actions have been taken to press them on the participation of their citizens in terror attacks I am reluctant to make a call there. I will say not developing our domestic oil sources is not something I agree with.

[sexual_chocolate]

But what about federally mandated fuel efficiency standards, hmmm? I'm tired of you guys evading evading evading the questions.

[Son_of_Caveman]

You libs. need to do the 'spin' with O'Rielly. He'd get the facts straight. hehehe

[MtnGoat]

"I'm still wanting to know if you think fuel efficiency standards should be federally mandated, since you seemed to agree with the principle of better fuel efficiency."

 

I was working on it, cool your jets!

 

I've never really decided how I feel about this one for certain. On the one hand, it might be useful, on the other it indicates a huge amount of coercive power used to meet a goal that could be more morally jusitifable when reached by consumers *proving* they value what they claim to value via their actual choices.

 

I see lots of fuel efficient cars around today, and yet still someone is making non efficient ones very, very popular, indicating it's real easy to claim to care about economy, but a heck of a lot of someones aren't actually choosing it.

 

I suppose some middle ground is acceptable to me, federal standards for efficiency that creep up a percentage point every few years to reduce impacts on manufacturing and design. Still, federal oversight is a hard sell with me and I'll be upfront about that.

 

I'm glad you're so keen on getting evasions answered, I'll keep that in mind for the future.

 

[ 11-20-2002, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: MtnGoat ]

[sexual_chocolate]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

DEAD KENNEDYS LYRICS

 

"Kinky Sex Makes The World Go 'Round"

 

Greetings:This is the Secretary of War at the State Department

of the United States

We have a problem.

The companies want something done about this sluggish

world economic situation

Profits have been running a little thin lately

and we need to stimulate some growth

Now we know

there's an alarmingly high number of young people roaming

around in your country with nothing to do but stir up trouble

for the police and damage private property.

It doesn't look like they'll ever get a job

It's about time we did something constructive with these people

We've got thousands of 'em here too. They're crawling all over

The companies think it's time we all sit down, have a serious get-together-

And start another war

The President?

He loves the idea! All those missiles streaming overhead to and fro

Napalm

People running down the road, skin on fire

The Soviets seem up for it:

The Kremlin's been itching for the real thing for years.

Hell, Afghanistan's no fun

So whadya say?

We don't even have to win this war.

We just want to cut down on some of this excess population

Now look. Just start up a draft; draft as many of those people as you can.

We'll call up every last youngster we can get our hands on,

hand 'em some speed, give 'em an hour or two to learn how to use

an automatic rifle and send 'em on their way

Libya? El Salvador? How 'bout Northern Ireland?

Or a "moderately repressive regime" in South America?

We'll just cook up a good Soviet threat story

in the Middle East-we need that oil

We had Libya all ready to go and Colonel Khadafy's hit squad

didn't even show up. I tell ya

That man is unreliable.

The Kremlin had their fingers on the button just like we did for that one

Now just think for a minute-We can make this war so big-so BIG

The more people we kill in this war, the more the economy will prosper

We can get rid of practically everybody on your dole queue if we plan this right.

Take every loafer on welfare right off our computer rolls

Now don't worry about demonstrations-just pump up your drug supply.

So many people have hooked themselves on heroin

and amphetamines since we took over, it's just like Vietnam.

We had everybody so busy with LSD they never got too strong.

Kept the war functioning just fine

It's easy.

We've got our college kids so interested in beer

they don't even care if we start manufacturing germ bombs again.

Put a nuclear stockpile in their back yard,

they wouldn't even know what it looked like

So how 'bout it? Look-War is money.

The arms manufacturers tell me unless

we get our bomb factories up to full production

the whole economy is going to collapse

The Soviets are in the same boat.

We all agree the time has come for the big one, so whadya say?!?

That's excellent. We knew you'd agree

The companies will be very pleased.

---

The most vocal right-wing, pro-war, pro-gun, pro-violence, anti-gay, anti-environment guy on the board is quoting the Dead Kennedys.

 

Fucking dumbass!

 

You're probably all for the "new" DKs too, huh?

---

He may be dumb, but at least he's consistent; consistently dumb, that is!

 

[ 11-20-2002, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: sexual chocolate ]

[sexual_chocolate]

Alright, caveman, where's my PM? I've made fun of you and I STILL haven't gotten my threatening PM!

[Dru]

I saw a double bill last night. Jackass The Movie and Bowling For Columbine. Two documentaries about the American soul. Hooray for Canada

[Son_of_Caveman]

Until we start taking Canadians seriously, we'll just consider the source of that snide remark, Hoser..

 

[ 11-20-2002, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Son of Caveman ]

[sexual_chocolate]

Hey, we're Americans. We don't need to be too smart! (Gosh that's sad, isn't it?)