Advice for how to spend the week in February???

[Andy Zig]

Dear Cascade Climbers,

 

I will be spending a week in the Portland OR area this February and i don't want to buy a lift ticket every single day. I'm an expert skier with years of experience skiing remote backcountry routes on the east coast, but i prefer to avoid avalanche prone areas due to my limited experience with such conditions. I'm looking for some nice routes at lower elevation that i can tour with my Alpine Touring setup and skins that will most likely not require probe/beacon/shovel. (i will still have a probe and shovel). Tight trees are not a problem, infact preferred. You haven't seen tight trees until you've skied the east. Is anyone willing to devulge some secrets or at least point me in the rigt direction? I'm hoping to find something safe, maybe 1000+ ft. vert in the Mount Hood and Mount Adams areas. Any advice would be appreciated. I don't want to step out into something unsafe. I also don't want to ride lifts all week, no fun.

 

Andyzig

[keenwesh]

tight trees in washington is a fucking wall. have fun skiing through that.

[caverpilot]

Buy a Sno-Park Permit for $20 (or $5/day) and park at any of them up on Mt. Hood or nearby Mt. St. Helens. There's a reason they're there, and you can follow tracks up/down and all around. Get on Google Earth and check out some of the pull outs. The winter climbing route on Mt. St. Helens is also a good bet; park at Marble Mountain Sno-Park . There's plenty of low angled, tight trees for a couple of miles off the well-worn trail to the summit that will make you feel right at home. And, you'll typically have plenty of company in baller conditions-

 

Or, drive to Timberline Lodge (on Mt. Hood) any day of the skison - the climbers route is skier's left, low angled, open slopes up past the ski area to the summit crater. You can skin up anytime and sleep in your car in the lot.

 

 

[DPS]

I'm an expert skier with years of experience skiing remote backcountry routes on the east coast, but i prefer to avoid avalanche prone areas due to my limited experience with such conditions.

You are an expert backcountry skier, yet you lack avalanche forecasting/rescue skills? Really?

 

I'm looking for some nice routes at lower elevation that i can tour with my Alpine Touring setup and skins that will most likely not require probe/beacon/shovel. I'm hoping to find something safe, maybe 1000+ ft. vert in the Mount Hood and Mount Adams areas. I don't want to step out into something unsafe.

 

I would not recommend someone not intimately familiar with local areas, weather patterns, and avalanche conditions to go backcountry skiing alone.

 

Seems like the last east coasters who started wagging their dicks around Mt Hood in winter ended up dead.

[KirkW]

You are an expert backcountry skier, yet you lack avalanche forecasting/rescue skills? Really? ...

 

...Seems like the last east coasters who started wagging their dicks around Mt Hood in winter ended up dead.

 

Having been castigated in the past, by none other than yourself, for flaming in the Newbies forum I'm left wondering if you've changed your mind about being a dick on the interwebz or if perhaps you just forgot to take your meds this morning DPS? Maybe you just forgot you were on CC and mistakenly thought you were posting to Summitcrap.com?

 

As I recollect it those dick waggers from the east coast (I guess Texas is the east coast now) found themselves dead because of an injury and getting pinned down by a much worse than predicted storm that socked the whole damn Mt in for days with winds in excess of 100mph. It's real easy for someone who doesn't even climb anymore to armchair the decisions made by people they've never met doing things you no longer do.

 

To the OP...yeah, BC solo touring probably isn't the best idea if your avy skills are lacking. Maybe you should use the partners forum and find a local who is interested in getting out while you are here?

[pcg]

Buy a Sno-Park Permit for $25 (or $5/day), then drive to Timberline Lodge (on Mt. Hood) any day of the skison - the climbers route is skier's left, low angled, open slopes up past the ski area to the summit crater. You can skin up anytime and sleep in your car in the lot.

Best suggestion, but don't skin straight up the bottom of the canyon above the upper lot. I am constantly astonished at how often I see people skiing right up the middle of that terrain trap. And make sure you carry compass and altimeter and review the navigation instructions for south side Hood that can be found in the climber's registration room just right of lower entrance to lower lodge. White out conditions are common and you can get cliffed out or find yourself in Zig Zag Canyon (big time avy danger) if you don't know your way down. BC skiers are supposed to register as well.

If snow conditions are lean and fast and hard like they are now you can pretty safely find lots of trees to ski in around the Mt. Hood area, but good luck with that. If there is deep fresh snow, it will be difficult to access trees steep enough to ski in without traveling in avy terrain.

 

...you should use the partners forum and find a local who is interested in getting out while you are here?

Good advice, also try Turns-All-Year partners wanted

[DPS]

Geez Kirk, I apologize for offending your delicate sensibilities. Allow me to rephrase my response so no one's feelings get hurt mmm-kay?

 

I'm an expert skier with years of experience skiing remote backcountry routes on the east coast, but i prefer to avoid avalanche prone areas due to my limited experience with such conditions.

Most expert backcountry skiers in this neck of the woods have completed avalanche training and are able to make in the field assessments of slope stability. Furthermore, most experienced backcountry skiiers ski in groups and carry beacons, probes, and shovels and the knowledge to use them in case of a burial.

I'm looking for some nice routes at lower elevation that i can tour with my Alpine Touring setup and skins that will most likely not require probe/beacon/shovel. I'm hoping to find something safe, maybe 1000+ ft. vert in the Mount Hood and Mount Adams areas. I don't want to step out into something unsafe.

 

I would not recommend someone not intimately familiar with local areas, weather patterns, and avalanche conditions to go backcountry skiing alone.

 

East coasters in the past have underestimatded the local weather conditions to tragic ends.

 

Is that better Miss Manners?

Edited December 24, 2011 by DPS

[stevetimetravlr]

DPS, the guy is not talking about summiting Hood via the North Face in winter while trying to outrun a storm. He is simply talking about casual backcountry skiing, of which there is plenty around Mt Hood accessible on regularly skiied trails running off from the many parking area on Hwy 35. Have fun and go after it.

[rob]

I'm an expert skier with years of experience skiing remote backcountry routes on the east coast, but i prefer to avoid avalanche prone areas due to my limited experience with such conditions.

You are an expert backcountry skier, yet you lack avalanche forecasting/rescue skills? Really?

 

Thank god SOMEBODY said it. They dont have avalanches back east??

[AOK]

I really fought responding to this ad for awhile-glad to see so many of you share my feelings towards east coasters who feel it necessary to post like this. Talk about typical attitude.

 

Hey Andy Zig, try the North Face of Mt Hood! That should suit your "expert" skiing style. pffft

[DPS]

I'm an expert skier with years of experience skiing remote backcountry routes on the east coast, but i prefer to avoid avalanche prone areas due to my limited experience with such conditions.

You are an expert backcountry skier, yet you lack avalanche forecasting/rescue skills? Really?

 

Thank god SOMEBODY said it. They dont have avalanches back east??

Yeah, and KirkW jumped down my throat for it.

[DPS]

It's real easy for someone who doesn't even climb anymore to armchair the decisions made by people they've never met doing things you no longer do.

 

You got me there Kirk, you must feel very clever for 'outing' me. I am not climbing right now as I am struggling with a serious immunodeficiency. You're just too awesome for me. Make sure when Dane comments, you call him out as an armchair mountaineer, because he's sick too. Asshat.

Edited December 24, 2011 by DPS

[sobo]

I'm an expert skier with years of experience skiing remote backcountry routes on the east coast, but i prefer to avoid avalanche prone areas due to my limited experience with such conditions.

You are an expert backcountry skier, yet you lack avalanche forecasting/rescue skills? Really?

Thank god SOMEBODY said it. They dont have avalanches back east??

Actually, having lived, climbed, and skied the "backcountry" in VA and WV for many years before moving out here, I can see why the OP doesn't have any avy training if he's never been out here, or up in Canada, etc. As AndyZig states, the trees are so dense in what qualifies for BC back East that they form such a good slope anchor, and the snowpack never really gets to depths like we get out here, that it was never really a problem and there really was never any need for avy training.

 

Now, given that Andy is headed out here, I agree with DPS and others and suggest that he watch the terrain he selects for traps, note the weather forecast, travel with some buds, and have the proper gear for location and extraction of those buds should it come to the worst. That's my $0.02

[Alex]

the answer to all this is very very simple: take your skins and skis and ski up and down Palmer snowfield from Timberline, as far as base of Crater Rock, on the South Side of Hood, as often as you like.

 

There are no crevasses, there will be no avalanches, and there are no trees either. Just wide open turns, 3000 ft of vert, and all the cardio workout you can handle. Totally solo-able, as long as you have decent visibility. When you get bored ofthat side, buy a lift ticket at Mt Hood Medows

[caverpilot]

Newbies Forum: "A place for people new to the Northwest, or new to the sport to ask questions about whatever. Absolutely no flaming."

 

However, I'm sure that Andy Zig would agree the words "expert skier" and "limited (avy) experience" sound a bit oxymoronic. .... But the rules say no flaming in the noobs forum, so give him a break, eh?

 

I agree that with few exceptions, "east coast" skiing seldom requires avy awareness - I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but other than a few specific places, avy chutes, couloirs, flagged trees, etc are indeed a big mountain phenomenon. (Again, I know there's exceptions) With the last couple "Snomaggedons" excepted, the east is known for "dust on crust," not avys. So I could imagine being an "expert" without experience in big-mountain conditions - remember the Cascades are notoriously wet and heavy and slide-prone compared with most of the country. I grew up in Pennsylvania and New York and never remember thinking about avalanches- we were lucky to have enough to ski in the late 80s. Even in the west there's plenty of people that would consider themselves expert backcountry skiers without avalanche evaluation experience - those who only spring ski, for instance. Then there's plenty of folks who tour the b/c, staying away from terrain traps and steep slopes. There are F'ing ski bladers. Ok, you get my point. Lots of variables.

 

Finally, Andy, I'd like to apologize for the forum's hostility - of course no one is going to give up their stash, but with a little research I'm sure you'll find plenty to keep you busy for a week! Good luck! (First, we need some damn snow!!)

[rob]

Even in the west there's plenty of people that would consider themselves expert backcountry skiers without avalanche evaluation experience - those who only spring ski, for instance

 

Fucking bullshit, spring skiing will kill you just as easily, and staying away from steep slopes won't prevent that either. That's some terrible advice you just gave.

 

I would be suspicious of anyone claiming to be an "expert" backcountry skier with "years of remote backcountry experience" and yet no knowledge of avalanche or snow stability, regardless of where they are from, and voicing that suspicion does not qualify as "flaming."

[stevetimetravlr]

Bah humbug..spring skiing is usually not near as avy prone as winter loading, especially regarding the terrain the OP asked about. Get out and get on it I say. Snow is coming.......tomorrow!!!! and all next week, snow in the hills.

Be the ball Danny, errr Andy.

 

 

[KirkW]

...voicing that suspicion does not qualify as "flaming."

 

You are correct Rob. Voicing that suspicion would be the right thing to do. Doing that in a way that doesn't involve name calling would be in line with the stated rules of the forum.

 

Calling him a "dickwagger" from the East Coast, or at the very least implying that the OP, being from the East Coast, would be one to wag his dick about, is flaming. Flaming isn't allowed in the newbies forum and DPS, since he seems to spend most of his waking hours trolling these and other forums knows that well enough. He's reprimanded me in the past actually so I'm quite sure he's well aware of the no flaming rule. Why should this rule not apply to him? Because he has an illness and can't climb anymore? Because he used to be a real hardman? Because he looks really good in Prana?

 

I don't actually have a problem with any of it. If duder wants to come out here and kill himself I say free fucks to em'. This threads been full of good advice and I don't really give a shit about the delivery of it all.

 

Unfortunately there are a few on this board and more specifically the Newbies forum that have christened themselves the wise old men of the mountains. If you give advice that differs from theirs or in a way that they feel is mean spirited they don't hesitate to call you out on it. Apparently some of those same individuals that have taken up the righteous cause of the "newb" feel that the rules of the forum don't apply to them because they are sick or some such shit.

[rob]

Kirk, you seem to be doing more flaming here than anyone else.

[KirkW]

I guess that would depend on what you view as flaming Rob.

[DPS]

Thanks G-d we have KirkW to police these here newbie boards lest someone get some salty talk along with their nickel's worth of free interwebs advice. Although I feel a little dirty knowing that he he follows me from interweb forum to interweb forum. I think that, much like my 10th grade girlfriend, he has an unhealthy obsession with me. It is probably because I look so attractive in Prana.

Edited December 25, 2011 by DPS

[rob]

well, I feel like a dick, though. The guy had an honest question and at least some people answered it for him. I was just thrown back by the way the question sounded.

[wetslide]

I liked you better as a sociopath, Rob.

[Andy Zig]

Wow, thanks for some of that. I think I can manage to extract a few helpful pieces of advice from all that. Unfortunately the thread seems a little off topic at this point.

 

I was not looking for judgment on this, I AM an expert skier. I don’t need affirmation on this. Ones skills on a pair and skis and ones formal training on avalanche safety are not necessarily related. I think most people on the east coast would find your conclusions rather short sighted. I can ski anything, any pitch and on any snow condition. We have rough conditions out here. I judge an expert on how they ski on bullet-proof boiler plate days, or how they ski a wind crust, or ice-crust, not how good they look on a blue-bird powder day. I ski all conditions well and therefore define myself as expert. But I know that I lack EXPERIENCE in avalanche conditions. I am well aware of and well read regarding avalanche safety and snow stability, but wise enough to know that skiing Mt. Hood area is something that I am not familiar with and should seek advice first. It is difficult to find experience on the east coast in avalanche conditions, such conditions rarely exist. We do not see avalanche warnings issued often, and some years not issued at all. If I wanted avalanche conditions, I could seek them out, but I tend to avoid them if possible. I have 10 years and over 100 days in the backcountry, never once going in in avalanche conditions. If you are of the opinion that someone without a beacon should NEVER leave the boundaries at all, just say so. Most of the so-called “dick-waggers” probably wouldn’t start by asking for advice and admitting inexperience. I don’t care what you think of my skiing ability. I was just trying to give the facts about my ability so the advice I was soliciting would be more relevant.

 

DPS, if you’re ever in Vermont, be sure to contact me first. Your Mad River Glen ticket is on me. It would be money well spent. I’d love to watch you try to follow.

 

Note: Also never said I would be skiing alone. I’m familiar with wilderness conditions, GPS, navigation, using a map and compass. My inexperience is regarding hands-on avalanche conditions only.

 

We have forums out here too. I typically spend very little time on them. I find that most people who are busy questioning others abilities through forum rants are usually compensating for their lack of ability.

 

Edited December 27, 2011 by Andy Zig

[Andy Zig]

In an effort to return this post to its intended topic, I have summarized the four pieces or relevant advice below. With the exception of # 4, all appear genuine. Can anyone confirm this? The advice about Sno-Park permit is extremely helpful and appreciated. Permit systems are not common around here so this is the type of help I was looking for.

 

1) Buy a Sno-Park Permit for $20 (or $5/day) and park at any of them up on Mt. Hood or nearby Mt. St. Helens. There's a reason they're there, and you can follow tracks up/down and all around. Get on Google Earth and check out some of the pull outs. The winter climbing route on Mt. St. Helens is also a good bet; park at Marble Mountain Sno-Park . There's plenty of low angled, tight trees for a couple of miles off the well-worn trail to the summit that will make you feel right at home. And, you'll typically have plenty of company in baller conditions-

 

2) Drive to Timberline Lodge (on Mt. Hood) any day of the ski season - the climbers route is skier's left, low angled, open slopes up past the ski area to the summit crater. You can skin up anytime and sleep in your car in the lot.

 

3)Ski up and down Palmer snowfield from Timberline, as far as base of Crater Rock, on the South Side of Hood, as often as you like.

 

4) Mt. Hood Northface

 

Edited December 27, 2011 by Andy Zig