Greg_W Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by sexual chocolate: Just walking around, looking for a PAGE TOP! fag Quote
chucK Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Greg W: You say you are for lots of government regulations against "pollution". Are you prepared for the lack of choice, lack of freedom, and increase in taxes that this will lead to when the government declares that they are the only ones who can administer such laws? If you are, that is fine; send them extra money now. Yes, I would be willing to sacrifice if it meant making the world nicer for my children. I will be happily sending in my extra money when our government actually enacts policies to protect the environment instead of actively seeking to tear down such protections. quote: You are mixing two issues, Chuck, Market and Property. Your neighbor fell under the Property issue; cars is a market issue. Sorry, but I see this as another dodge. Cars is not the issue. The air we breathe is the issue. Government legislation succeeded in helping the clean air issue. It is currently hamstrung by the SUV loophole. Quote
chucK Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 so where is sexy chocodile and his pathetic quests for pagetop on this one? Quote
allthumbs Posted October 23, 2002 Author Posted October 23, 2002 yadayadayadayadazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I'm sorry I started this fucking thread! Quote
MtnGoat Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 "Sorry, but I see this as another dodge. Cars is not the issue." interesting how much you see as a dodge, when you will not discuss how your habits contrast to those you don't like the behavior of. such as traveling places you do not absolutely need to go, and supporting mining and drilling that creates the gear you use to do, what you do not need to do. This is the largest dodge there is, claiming others desires are not necessary ones while ignoring yours aren't either. [ 10-23-2002, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: MtnGoat ] Quote
ILuvAliens Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 Goatboy. Define absolutley needing to go. Quote
iain Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by ILuvAliens: Goatboy. Define absolutley needing to go. please keep it to less than 8 paragraphs and 3 posts Quote
MtnGoat Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 well, there's been lots of talk about who does and doesn't "need" a particular kind of car, who does and doesn't "need" to commute in a particular way, etc. I take this as indicating "need" does not recognize that personal choices are sufficient to justify same. If ones arbitrary personal desires cannot validate need, then the arbitrary choice to waste resources and pollute traveling to climb is hardly valid. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 The Doctor can't resist jumping on the 'Harangue MtnGoat Train' ... MtnGoat, please concisely define "concise." Quote
MtnGoat Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 hey doc, did you ever see my response on how to a) implement national care without including those who wish to opt out, and b) how it's possible for folks to use differing programs? check the other thread. Quote
b-rock Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 MtnGoat, do you have a job? I'd love to figure out how to spend so much time surfing without getting fired... Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by MtnGoat: hey doc, did you ever see my response on how to a) implement national care without including those who wish to opt out, and b) how it's possible for folks to use differing programs? check the other thread. Goat, a) yes; b) yes. It seemed logical enough. Getting people to vote for things that apply so selectively would probably take a major reprogramming of the Amerikan brain, but it sounds nice. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 work as a gym supervisor... all i do is surf the net... and do homework...s'a great thing... Quote
MtnGoat Posted October 23, 2002 Posted October 23, 2002 easy, i get my work done on time and the shit works. Same reason I can take early escapes on fridays to get out of town ahead of traffic! Quote
chucK Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 Sorry Mountain Goat. I really don't see what your point is about the fact that I do some polluting. I have been dodging you as this issue, and others you have brought up, seem tangential to what I am railing about. I was attempting to focus/waste all my time on the specific issue of why the desires of a few moneymaking polluters get equal time with everyone and their children who are forced to breathe and drink their detritus. I'm wasting enough time here as it is without having to think up a response to every one of your ceaseless jabs over minutia. But since you seem so hung up on this I will relent. Just this once. quote: This is the largest dodge there is, claiming others desires are not necessary ones while ignoring yours aren't either. AFAICT you're argument is that I can't complain about others polluting because I pollute myself. No scale of degradation is taken into account. Can this be correct? Are you're saying that the only way I can complain about, for instance, Iraq lighting fire to Kuwaiti oil wells and causing an ecological disaster, is if I first commit suicide and dispose of myself properly?! Sorry but this is the argument that I am gleaning from your posts. I find this argument incomprehensibly stupid. That is why I have not responded earlier. I feel you must take scale into account. I do not find my pleasure trips to the Cascades to be on an equal scale to an auto industry that markets inefficient automobiles to thousands of people just because they can. I hope this answers your question. This is how I feel it is OK to continue to live and create methane emissions while at the very same time rail about greedhogs who value conservation of clean air and water only if the market forces make it more profitable for them. Quote
b-rock Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 No worries, no offense. I was half ribbing ya, half serious, yeah, I want that kinda job. Quote
Colin Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 Anyone else ever notice that those people who get called "pussies" or "fags" for having an environmental conscience, are the only ones who can actually climb? Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 who the fuck cares dood... seriously climbing is fun and if you take it to that level...it is no better than any other dumbass sport like football or rugby...seriously fun in the outdoors...say it with me fun in teh outdoors..."but i can climb 5.65 onsight redpoint flash-light...who cares what you can climb... Quote
allthumbs Posted October 24, 2002 Author Posted October 24, 2002 Fence Sitter's right on the money. It's all about getting out and doing something, anything. Plenty of time to lie around on the couch eating chips and sucking suds when we retire. Until then, give em' hell! Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 Shut up, fag! There, Fence Sitter, you can climb hard now, too! Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 i dont wanna climb hard...i wanna climb lots...and i would never join your 'side' even if i could climb laps around sharma, or thaw, or viesturs or whoever is your posterboy of the day... Quote
MtnGoat Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 "I was attempting to focus/waste all my time on the specific issue of why the desires of a few moneymaking polluters get equal time with everyone and their children who are forced to breathe and drink their detritus." because those moneymaking polluters only make money because many of us want their products, and if curtail them you impede others too. "I'm wasting enough time here as it is without having to think up a response to every one of your ceaseless jabs over minutia." The minutae of what you consider pollution is inseparable from your demand it be ended, because unless you detail what pollution is claims that all pollution must end except your pollution are at cross purposes. Making claims can only be judged by the standards they are judged against, and only you can tell us what your standards are. "AFAICT you're argument is that I can't complain about others polluting because I pollute myself." I have asked you to detail why your pollution does not count, and never claimed once you cannot complain while continuing to pollute. I may point out that it happens and you give yourself an out you deny others, I have not said you can't complain. Complain away. In this way I can critique your continued usage. What I want to know is why your choices are legitimate while those of millions of others are not. "No scale of degradation is taken into account." I am aware of this, and asking for this scale is precisely what I'm doing. I would point out that since producers build products for millions upon millions, that of course their scale will be larger, just as the sum total of many thousands of people's choices to go hiking or climbing on a weekend turns each small instance of degradation into a much larger one. "I feel you must take scale into account. I do not find my pleasure trips to the Cascades to be on an equal scale to an auto industry that markets inefficient automobiles to thousands of people just because they can." yet you climb, and use metals and oil, just because you can. This element of attacking what others do "just because they can" as if they are different from you is the issue here. How are they different? HHow do you decide what you do is not waste when you cannot in any way know why they do what they do nor what else they do you don't know about? It's the entire set of assumptions that allows you to opt out while convicting other who are merely using their personal desires to make choices that I can't figure out. I do not get how you seemingly know who chooses what, and why, using any basis other than massive assumptions about others. "I hope this answers your question." I appreciate the response, surely, but it doesn't answer my question. My elemental question is: why do you get to decide so many other individuals, you say you value in social threads, are making choices you don't like when you don't know them or why they make them, other than by assumption? [ 10-23-2002, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: MtnGoat ] Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Fence Sitter: i dont wanna climb hard...i wanna climb lots...and i would never join your 'side' even if i could climb laps around sharma, or thaw, or viesturs or whoever is your posterboy of the day... Pussy. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 good one... i'll bet you have naked pictures of sharma on your walls... but hey its ok cause you can climb 5.whatever...cool Quote
allthumbs Posted October 24, 2002 Author Posted October 24, 2002 DFA, what's your disfunction? Your boyfiend cheating on you again? Bwahahaha Quote
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