Stainless BD Sabretooth mistake. Suggestions?

[danmcph]

I just bought some SS sabretooths. Now I wish I hadn't. I am thinking of ordering different pair of crampons. I will be climbing in the alpine (U-notch, tetons etc) and up to WI-4 in Utah.

 

What pons would you suggest instead? I was thinking of Sarken Spirlocks.

[genepires]

No doubt you read some negative comments on the durability of the SS but there must be thousands of crampons out there performing well. Maybe you should reconsider the ditching of your sabertooths and just check them regularly for cracks if that is your concern. If it does get a crack, then BD will do you right.

 

Now if you got lots of spare cash.......

 

I prefer the sarken to the sabertooths. No detailed reasoning as I have never worn the sabertooths. But I did not like to do wi4 in the sarkens. I thought the front points were to long for winter waterice. So either you kick in extras hard for full penetration or you needed more calf work to keep foot level. But for alpine ice, I really like the sarkens.

[BigSky]

Agree the sarken frontpoints are too long for WI. I'd roll with the Sabretooths and develop your tastes more with that experience.

[Dane]

"For what it costs, and what we risk, why would anyone ever climb on gear you have to question?

 

I have climbed on the Sabertooth and everything else I am listing here but the newst Lynx. After last winter's ss failures showed and now more faulty ss crampons turn up (another new one today on the blog) I have to agree with your thinking.

 

develop your tastes more with that experience

 

You could get a very bitter after taste from that experience.

 

Sabertooth is easily replaced by the Grivel G12 or Air Tech with as many binding options as well. Either will climb grade V ice or harder easy enough.

 

All the hard climbs both have been used on would be difficult to list. House did his new route on Alberta in a pair of G12s as an easy example.

 

Petzl offers all sorts of options. Vasak, Dartwin, the newest Lynx. Sarken (adjusted correctly) seem to work for a lot of folks just fine on difficult water ice, mixed and in the alpine.

 

Good info here:

 

Andy Kirkpatrick's in particular is worth the read.

 

Andy Turner seems to be another Brit who spends a good deal of time in the Sarken.

 

http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/petzl_charlet_sarken_spirlock

 

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=206066

 

http://reviews.mec.ca/9421-en_ca/5014-181/petzl-charlet-vasak-leverlock-crampons-reviews/reviews.htm

 

http://www.pembaserves.com/2011/01/petzl-sarken-crampon-review/

 

More on choosing a crampon here:

http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/getting_the_right_crampon

 

Sabertooth had been my go to crampons for a couple of seasons until this spring. When I switched to the Dartwin for better reliability. But haven't decided if I will get something else or not. Likely the Lynx is in my future and a more comparable replacemnt for the Sabertooth. But the Air Tech is under consideration as well.

[EastCoastBastard]

I'd just hang onto them. You've already got them, they climb great and there are thousands of people out there climbing on BD SS crampons and enjoying it. As Dane points out, the durability may not be the same as with older BD crampons or other CroMo steel crampons. But everyone I know that climbs on BD SS crampons hasn't noticed a difference between the durability of the SS and other crampons. Dane's example fails to mention the type of rock the mixed climbing was on - I've never encountered anything as abrasive as Chamonix alpine granite. I'm not disagreeing with him, but my tool picks and crampon frontpoints have never taken such a beating as when I was drytooling up alpine granite in Cham. Hang onto them, climb some hard shit and when they're worn out (probably years from now), buy something else.

 

I was really looking forward to BD's new crampon (the Stinger) to replace my aging CroMo cyborgs. Looks like a fantastic design. I probably won't now, but if I already had them I wouldn't worry about it, save the normal checking that I do with all my gear.

Edited August 29, 2011 by EastCoastBastard

[Dane]

Easy to get side tracked on the real issue here, with comments like, "it is your boot, your skill, your body weight, your technique" or now even "the rock".

 

I've never encountered anything as abrasive as Chamonix alpine granite

 

Ya, about that Chamonix granite? I bought a new pair of Dartwins while in Chamonix. I used them on every mixed climb I did there last winter but the two laps mentioned on the Cosmic with SS.

 

The climbing amounted to several 1000' feet including, you guessed it, two additional laps on the Cosmic.

 

Never sharpened and untouched since I got home in April. Judge for yourself how much life is still in these forged, chromoly front points. For me at least another full winter season (2+ months) in Chamonix again.

 

 

No question Chamonix is hard on gear but I suspect it is because you get to climb mixed any given day if you chose, not that the rock is any harder or more abrasive than granite in Alaska or the Tetons for example. It is just easier to get to and get on.

 

If you keep track (and I obviously do) I also find it interesting that the companies based around Chamonix don't have recent issues breaking picks or the more recent issue of crampon failures.

 

And finally. I could have included these Dartwins in my "crampon metal" comments. I didn't because of several reasons. First, the design is totally different as is the surface area contacting the rock.

 

But if you look closely and actually examine the surface area between the two crampon styles there is a stark difference on what is really available for material to prolong the life of your crampons. Kinda remnds me of a razor blade and an axe in profile. Which is why I didn't add the Dartwin to the original conversation.

 

 

[danmcph]

So I now have these sabertooths that I got for 40% off, never used.

 

Dane, would you recomend that I go with something else for full price and sell the sabretooths? Or just watch them like a hawk?

 

FYI I am pretty new to alpine climbing and a route like the middle teton glacier is about the extent of what I would climb for now.

[rob]

you would really consider throwing away a brand-new pair of sabertooths and go buy another brand at full price? Geez, just use the damn things and if you're worried then keep an eye on them.

 

It's a sunk cost at this point, so you might as well get at least a season out of them. it's not like they're going to simply crumble underneath you within a few hours of buying them.

 

So much FUD flying around about the damn things. OH NO YOU BOUGHT SABRETOOTHS????? YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!!!

Edited September 5, 2011 by rob

[Dane]

A sensible person would ask, "what should I do with my Sabertooth crampons?"

 

Check and see if they are first gen or second. If they are first gen I'd call BD and ask for a free upgrade. I personally would not climb on them. Obviously Rob would May be he will buy them from you. If they are second gen? At least then you will have a better chance of them surviving a full season.

 

FWIW no way in hell would I climb on a crampon I have seen fail enough to question their reliability. You asked, and that is my opinion.

 

BD says there is nothing wrong with their SS crampons. Rob seems to believe them as well. I have nothing to gain from telling the SS story from my perspective.

 

If you are into yours for $100 and change, I'd call it a cheap lesson and get rid of them (factory return or what ever) Life is short enough that it seems a waste to worry about lack luster gear.

[lummox]

Get em replaced by bd. Go climb. Leave buyer's remorse for the stupid stuff you bought for your ex.

[iceaxe23]

I've got the lighter BD contact version in stainless. I have used them all season to compliment my older more technical crampons. I ended up using them 90% of the time this season as they are not heavy. I abuse them and never take them off even for large scree sections. I really thought I abused them on my last epic but they look fine.

 

Like others have said just go climb with them.

[danmcph]

They are second generation crampons.