Gaucho Argentino Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Hi, seeking for some feedback if you have experience in the matter and feel like sharing... Just came back from my first couple of days with the "Silent Partner". Although I'm very happy how secure it is and how fast it brakes to take a fall, it was a bummer how much friction it gives when lead climbing. Even with the rope in my pack (so no weight from the rope on the system), whenever I pulled up to make a move even 10 feet away from my anchor (i.e. very little rope hanging or weighting the devicw), it felt like a belayer that does not give you slack, and made a 5.7 feel like a 5.9. The clove hitch slightly closed and gave a lot of friction. I wanted to grease the rope !! BTW, the rope is brand new, a 9.8 petzl. Please, has anyone used this device and figured out a way to make the rope run smoother through it? I did google a bunch of posts but no one gave ideas as to how solve this. Thanks, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 It's really simple to solve. Climb with another human being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaucho Argentino Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Dude, I know that. Could we for once just have a solid discussion of a real climbing question? I am not inventing anything here, this technique is part of the climbing community. You can agree or disagree, but just post if you have any helpful feedback, I think is not that weird a thing to ask, right? Thanks, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I have to dial back my lead-grade a few notches when using the SP. This might be partly due to additional friction--though I don't really note it as a specific problem when I'm climbing--but I suspect it's a factor because the SP changes how I climb: 1)carrying more weight(the rope in the backpack); 2)moving more slowly(maybe because I sense the device doesn't feed as well for quick movements?); 3)needing to modify where I place pro relative to my body(usually at waist level so I don't have to pull out so much rope to clip); 4)climbing more carefully so that I can monitor the system... I don't get the same experience out of the climb as I would if I had a live belayer, but that's not to say it's not enjoyable. It's just different. And yes, it totally makes a 5.7 feel like a 5.9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 make sure you thread it right. i have only used mine a couple of times and that was years ago but I have heard that you can thread it wrong and it wont feed correctly. is it maybe a reverse clove hitch vs. a standard clove hitch??? just some thoughts... hopefully dberdinka will chime in with the real beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) never used one personally but here is a couple thoughts is your rope supple? I would imagine a stiff rope having a harder time going through the clove hitch. Maybe a older rope would be better than the new rope. In order to minimize the angle of the rope going through the clove hitch, have the rope going to the anchor on one side of the body and the free rope on the other side. If these ropes cross in front of you, they may induce friction. Edited May 2, 2011 by genepires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obwan Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Amigo - I have a Soloist made by Rock Exotica from the early 90's. It's a bit cumbersome as it requires the use of a chest harness to keep the rope coming out from the top. It also is used with the rope hanging on it's own weight, to feed by itself - but this only works on straight forward routes so it doesn't snag. I've led 5.9 trad with it - but one should lower their expectations, the 5.7's do feel like 5.9 depending on sport or trad. I've also used a Gri-Gri for self belay with some success, but you have to pull or feed the rope. A safer option is to use them in a top-rope scenario, with the rope tied off at the anchor and cruise up the rope. A final note - I'm sure most devices have a rope drag issue and it's not something to use that often, but is handy when no partners are around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I have used a Silent Partner for a couple years now, and yes they have more slightly more drag and issues then with a belayer. The most important thing is to make sure that when you clove the SP, that the rope comes out of the SP EXACTLY like in the diagram in the manual, which is off the top of it. If it comes off the bottom, major rope drag and problems and sounds like the issue you had Gaucho. The other thing is that if you carry the rope in your pack you are possibly creating more drag. It is designed for the rope to be hanging straight down and feeds well when the rope is cleanly hanging. Yard out maybe 35-40 feet and clove off. Anymore then that and its back to the rope drag issue again. The SP is more practical it seems to me for granite or long steep routes where you can let the rope hang without fear of the rope catching on horns. Red Rocks not so good a place for it, Yosemite good. The SP is a really heavy duty bombproof device, and has always locked up for me in a fall. If you go to fall, do not resist it or grab the rope or whatever, take the plunge as you want that quick action to get the SP to lock off, slow sliding falls such as on slab climbing may not get it to activate so be aware of that and if you fall on slab, throw yourself off. Its a great device, but really only practical on some climbs. Hard free climbs basically turn into French free and it is always challenging to stay one step ahead of the device, trying to figure out where/how you are going to re-clove the device and feed more rope, etc. Also, be aware that in some instancs the SP will unlock on you. I was standing on a small flake and had the device locked and my weight on it,i leaned forward to do something and then as I re-weighted the rope the SP let the clove slide and I found myself in a slow motion fall going over backwards, its not a Gri gri! I've found the more you use the SP, the more intuitive the use becomes and it gets easier and faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 make sure you thread it right. i have only used mine a couple of times and that was years ago but I have heard that you can thread it wrong and it wont feed correctly. is it maybe a reverse clove hitch vs. a standard clove hitch??? just some thoughts.. This. If you rig it wrong (it will appear to be correct) you get lots of friction. Review your set up vis a vis the manual. All this solo shit has made be be nicer to my climbing partners so that they want to climb with me. Soloing with a rope generally sucks IMO. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 A Silent Partner should feed very smoothly and without visible friction on a brand new ~10mm rope. Others have already pointed out the likely problems. 1) check that you've loaded the rope correctly with the strands coming out of the device on the side with the carabiner hole. 2) SP is designed with the intent that both strands of rope hang below the device when climbing. With the rope in a backpack and presumably feeding over your shoulder I'd think you get some weird ropefeed issues. My advice (having never done the backpack thing...) Get or make a GOOD rope bucket, not a rope bag but a bucket. The Fish Snake Charmer is awesome. If you really plan on just using a single line for more or less straightup pitches his single rope bucket would work fine as well. I don't think there are any other good alternatives. Us a backup knot (I use one then retie 1-3 times a pitch) It serves two purposes 1) as a backup and 2) maintain semi-equal rope weight/tension on each side of the SP. Used correctly you won't have to tie off your rope midpitch to avoid excessive feed, which compromises the whole system IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaucho Argentino Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Hi, Thanks you all for the good advice and time, I really appreciate it. Couple of notes then for those that answered and know more than me to see if I got the idea right, and for those that did not use it yet but may want to use the device in the future: 1) The rigging was exactly as the manual. So my take in here (although not easy to explain in words in a computer) is that the device is not "friction free" on the way up, like a rope would feed through an open gri-gri (and what I was expecting from reading the manual). It is going to be more like the friction of someone on rappel on an ATC, or like having some constant mild rope drag like when you go around a corner and you feel the pull down in your hips. It kinda makes sense because is very difficult to imagine a rope feeding through a clove that will not have some friction. I was just hoping for less, again when reading at the manual :-) 2) Rope from the top or bottom: will think about redirecting the rope in my pack to a biner on my harness leg loop so that it seems as if coming from below. I hope it will not generate too much friction that will lock the system. It should not be as bad as 20-30 feet of rope weight hanging. I really do not like for now leaving the rope below, or having the loops hanging 3) I tried it in a couple vertical 5.7 / 5.8 cracks in Vantage. May be is more user friendly in less than vertical situation? I'll try it asap in something like 70-80 degrees, I think it might make a difference. (Anyone already compared this?) 4) It would be great to have a discussion about how best to rig anchors both for upward and downward pulls like you can potentially have in a multipitch solo climb, but I guess that might be too much for the thread. If anyone interested in the topic ever feel like a beer and discussing the issue, I'm in Seattle and the first pitcher's on me Summary: is a very solid secure device, just would not feed as smooth as you would think when reading the description. Still I think the pros are better than the cons... Thanks again to all !! ... GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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