JayB Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Witness the dystopian nightmare at the end regressive neocon warmongering plutocrat's ideological crusade to end collective bargaining for public many formerly unionized private sector employees... We are. Word. Eeek! http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/initiatives_detail.aspx?initiativeID=36072 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 pretending that cutting compensation for workers is going to solve the fiscal crisis while state revenue are imploding is not only poor public policy, it's a lie. Private companies do it all the time. And w/r/t retirement... so do individual employees at private companies. Sometimes you have to cut 401k from 10% to say 6% when times are not so good. Sometimes you even have to cut below the amount where you get matching funds. That's life, j_b. Some kind of variable bonus compensation that's indexed to economic growth over and above a particular floor would do wonders for aligning the incentives of the public and private sector workers, and would serve as an automatic belt tightening mechanism during recessions. Seems like a reasonable idea that actually tries to address, for instance, reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 especially idealism like a living wage/pension Wages fine. Unfunded pensions with auto increases despite the economy. No. So another 6% from the WA budget. Where's should it come from in your opinion? certainly not from austerity measures as it will compound the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 You seem to throw bombs at anyone's opinion but have no solution of your own. How convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 especially idealism like a living wage/pension Wages fine. Unfunded pensions with auto increases despite the economy. No. So another 6% from the WA budget. Where's should it come from in your opinion? certainly not from austerity measures as it will compound the problem Tighter budgets when the economy is not good - it's temporary and helps reduce the pressure on the budget. When the economy improves, the "austerity" is relaxed. Damn, you're dense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 the only solution offered by you and others is to cut employee compensation, so it's not like I am arguing aginst a mulitiude of proposed solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 especially idealism like a living wage/pension Wages fine. Unfunded pensions with auto increases despite the economy. No. So another 6% from the WA budget. Where's should it come from in your opinion? certainly not from austerity measures as it will compound the problem Tighter budgets when the economy is not good - it's temporary and helps reduce the pressure on the budget. When the economy improves, the "austerity" is relaxed. Damn, you're dense. What a concept. "Unlike the federal government, states are not able to issue debt routinely. Issues of general obligation debt require at least the approval of the legislature and in many states, voter approval. The issue of revenue bonds requires legislation to create an agency to issue bonds and the creation of a revenue stream to repay the debt. These practices mean that the issuance of debt is fully in the public view. It is extremely rare for a state government to borrow long-term funds to cover operating expenses, although. Louisiana did in 1988 and Connecticut did in 1991. There do not appear to be any other examples of this practice from recent years." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Tighter budgets when the economy is not good - it's temporary and helps reduce the pressure on the budget. When the economy improves, the "austerity" is relaxed. Damn, you're dense. that'd be worth a reply if effective employee compensation hadn't gone down for the last 30 years while inequality soared and if your solution for "easing pressure on the budget" wasn't solely for workers to take another compensatinn cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 remember how KKK argued against increasing taxes on the wealthy and now this hypocrite wants to "ease pressure on the budget" by cutting public employee compensation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Tighter budgets when the economy is not good - it's temporary and helps reduce the pressure on the budget. When the economy improves, the "austerity" is relaxed. Damn, you're dense. that'd be worth a reply if effective employee compensation hadn't gone down for the last 30 years while inequality soared and if your solution for "easing pressure on the budget" was solely for workers to take another compensatinn cut. you made a reply, idiot. Elaborate on the argument you make about effective compensation - are you saying for the private sector it has declined for 30 years but for the private sector it has been the same or improved? I'll hold you to your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 You are a clown who now wants underpaid public employees to take a cut but who didn't want the upper 1% to pay taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 remember how KKK argued against increasing taxes on the wealthy and now this hypocrite wants to "ease pressure on the budget" by cutting public employee compensation We are discussing state and local budgets not federal income taxes or capital gains taxes. YOU have never argued quantitatively exactly what taxes you would raise, for whom, by how much, and what the exact effect of this windfall revenue would be. You only argue (hysterically) about taxes being "not fair" for the "rich" and then spew some drivel about regressive neo-con knuckledragging plutocrats blah blah blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 You are a clown who now wants underpaid public employees to take a cut but who didn't want the upper 1% to pay taxes. Public pensions are the item under question, not salaries. And the argument has been that they are unsustainable. Funny how this is not an issue in the private sector. I wonder how that could be... hmmm. And the clown, specifically the ass clown, well that would be you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 spare us your worthless bullshit, not only you argued against taxing the wealthy on the federal level but also against prop 1098. You are a laughable opportunist. You have no credibilty whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 since we are on the subject of keeping tabs: didn't Jim argue pretty vehemently against prop 1098 (state income tax on top 1% of tax bracket)? and now he claims that cutting public employee benefits is the only solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Just for fun: Where would the budget shortfall stand now had 1098 passed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Oh, and what about that soda-pop one? Oh boy, talk about a dystopian nightmare had that doozy passed! It's safe to say our Republic dodged a bullet there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Here's a blast from those halcyon days of yore where the economy was cranking, Tim Eyman! Not hearing those types coming up in the conversations about revenue shortfalls are we? Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 pretending that cutting compensation for workers is going to solve the fiscal crisis while state revenue are imploding is not only poor public policy, it's a lie. Private companies do it all the time. And w/r/t retirement... so do individual employees at private companies. Sometimes you have to cut 401k from 10% to say 6% when times are not so good. Sometimes you even have to cut below the amount where you get matching funds. That's life, j_b. Some kind of variable bonus compensation that's indexed to economic growth over and above a particular floor would do wonders for aligning the incentives of the public and private sector workers, and would serve as an automatic belt tightening mechanism during recessions. Seems like a reasonable idea that actually tries to address, for instance, reality. from an academic circle jerk perspective, sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Yeah Jim, I guess we just have to face the fact that Washingtonians are fucking morons. Thanks for the reality check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 You are a clown who now wants underpaid public employees to take a cut but who didn't want the upper 1% to pay taxes. Public pensions are the item under question, not salaries. And the argument has been that they are unsustainable. Funny how this is not an issue in the private sector. I wonder how that could be... hmmm. Because the company declares bankruptcy and dumps the pension on the PBGC fucking over everyone? Ask an airline employee sometime. Sweet jesus you fuckers are retarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 "Starving the beast" is a fiscal-political strategy of some American conservatives[1][2][3] to create or increase existing budget deficits via tax cuts to force future reductions in the size of government. The term "beast" refers to the government and the programs it funds, particularly social programs such as welfare, Social Security, Medicare and public schools Starve the beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 "if you've got a kid that's extravagant, you can lecture him all you want to about his extravagance. Or you can cut his allowance and achieve the same end much quicker." R. Reagan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 You are a clown who now wants underpaid public employees to take a cut but who didn't want the upper 1% to pay taxes. Public pensions are the item under question, not salaries. And the argument has been that they are unsustainable. Funny how this is not an issue in the private sector. I wonder how that could be... hmmm. Because the company declares bankruptcy and dumps the pension on the PBGC fucking over everyone? Ask an airline employee sometime. Sweet jesus you fuckers are retarded. Or the auto companies, or the... Yeah, private industry? NO PROBLEMS! LOL Fucking idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 That Tim Eyman is probably leading the charge against public workers as we speak. Fucking American patriot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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