Demonstrations/Protests/USA

[Lucky Larry]

I need some help here, brain fart, but haven't we had some really big peaceful demonstrations here in the USA that have never changed a gosh darn thing.

 

Anything more recent then:

 

On June 12, 1982, one million people demonstrated in New York City's Central Park against nuclear weapons and for an end to the cold war arms race. It was the largest anti-nuclear protest and the largest political demonstration in American history.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Lucky Larry

[rob]

Tell that to Rosa Parks.

[ivan]

guiness world record protest was in 2003 before the iraq war broke out so---15 million world wide i think?....yeah...about the same result.

[Lucky Larry]

Interesting. Reports are saying Americans only use the net for socializing while other countries use it for political action ie protests/demonstration demanding change. Time will tell if the new boss is the same as the old boss.

 

In America it appears so; however, I've been told that Obama really does challenge the status quo and thats why they hate him so much.

 

The anti-nuke thing doesn't appear to have done much. The anti Iraq war thing, nada. Maybe Americans feel protesting is a waste of time given the results. So much for the pressure release valve. Now everything is just a blame game--good solution.

[murraysovereign]

In western democracies, protest is just a way of venting some bile while you wait for the next election. You show up for an afternoon in the park with a bunch of like-minded people, then go home for dinner and back to work the next day.

 

In autocratic regimes - Libya being a timely example - such protests are the only shot these people have at effecting real change. It's not just a day in the park - they know going in it will be seen as a serious challenge to the authority of people who aren't accustomed to being challenged. These people don't get to wait for the next election, because there isn't one. This isn't bile being vented: this is the appendix rupturing. They know there's a very real likelihood of imprisonment, serious injury, or death. They don't do this unless they feel they have no other choice, and they know that once they've started they can't turn back. So they don't go home for dinner and back to work the next day - it's "in for a penny: in for a pound." They stay out in the park day after day, in the hope that enough others will join them to force the regime to give in.

 

If protests were the only way out for we westerners, we'd take them a lot more seriously, and stick with them a lot longer. But we know we have recourse to ballots on a regular basis which, rightly or wrongly, takes some of the urgency and commitment out of the protest dynamic.

[prole]

[video:youtube]

[tvashtarkatena]

How proposed budget cuts will hurt the economy

[prole]

Your author inadvertently stumbles across the key in this passage:

 

economists at Goldman Sachs estimated that the House cuts would reduce economic growth by 1.5 percentage points to 2 percentage points in the second and third quarters of 2011. That would devastate employment. As a rule of thumb, each percentage point drop in growth means a loss of 1.2 million jobs.

 

They will hurt the economy, but structural adjustment through austerity is nothing new. The neoliberal motto has always been no pain no gain. The notion that they simply don't know what they're doing is a dangerous one.

[Lucky Larry]

Who trusts anything goldmansucks sucks, have you noticed The Great Depression II they, cough, sputter, lined their pockets with?

[Lucky Larry]

murraysovereign Offline

old hand

Pretty much sums it up, rightly or wrongly, as long as the ballot box is still believed as a way of 'change' nothing ever will given 'our' Great Republic has been bought and paid for. Henceforth I am retiring from spray, there is nothing left to say or do, it is all masturbation without purpose, a seed cast on a hard rock. God save the Queen.

 

I lied like, dare I say, Clintoris , Bird-in-Bush II, Bushstank I, Raygun, and

 

Nixon said,"People have got to know whether or not their President is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook. I've earned everything I've got."[191]

Edited March 2, 2011 by Lucky Larry

[rob]

Ironic that somebody who admires the protesters across the world demanding in one voice something so simple as the right to vote, would belittle our ballot box in the same breath.

[tvashtarkatena]

Yet another Congressional assault on middle class jobs....

 

Harry Reid takes on the first jobs ever created

 

Edited February 28, 2011 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

Ironic that somebody who admires the protesters across the world demanding in one voice something so simple as the right to vote, would belittle our ballot box in the same breath.

 

That's cool. More voter apathy means more political power for me and my cronies.

[Lucky Larry]

Ironic that somebody who admires the protesters across the world demanding in one voice something so simple as the right to vote, would belittle our ballot box in the same breath.

 

oops, the hanging Chad, sorry Gore, you lose.

[rob]

Ironic that somebody who admires the protesters across the world demanding in one voice something so simple as the right to vote, would belittle our ballot box in the same breath.

 

oops, the hanging Chad, sorry Gore, you lose.

 

Ooh, perfect example, thanks. That election might not have been so close if more people had turned out to vote. That year's voter turnout was just over 50%. Think about that: only 25% of voting-age citizens bothered to show up to vote for Gore. And so Bush weasled his way in.

 

Sad. If only more people had decided to make their voices heard in the ballot box, instead of moping around apathetically, the last 10 years might have been very, very different.

Edited March 2, 2011 by rob

[Lucky Larry]

Same current logic: blame the voters for the current situation, it's the voters fault, they got what they asked for. It's an excellent way for government to remain unaccountable for anything that happens, we get what we deserve.

 

The Nazi had a sign at the entrance to the death camps, "they got what they deserved."

 

Who collected the information on the the elections for Gore? Who verified it?

 

Once upon a time the peoples vote was counted one head for one vote. That was too slow and clumsy at the time; Hence, the creation of an electorate.

 

Electorate may refer to:

 

* The group of people entitled to vote in an election, sometimes referred to as the constituency.

* An electoral district, the geographic area of a particular election.

* The dominion of an Elector in the Holy Roman Empire.

 

A constituent is any member of a constituency, including those who did not vote for the incumbent elected representative(s).

 

Ok, so how close do you think the numbers run in those constituency's. Due you really believe that the numbers spread across the parties is really that close. Doesn't that strike you as a little strange in the least little way after all these years.

 

This system is outdated now that we have the internet, face book , tweet, etc. Egypt has proven this. Our system is just as corrupt as theirs, were just a little father behind. After all we elected the ones that supported the ones that held control of them, we are to blame--the government elected officials that did it to them are not to blame-- we the citizens are. This blame seems to be a wee bit misplaced. They serve us of nobility and humanity, not lowness and corruption.

 

Let's just forget that stuff.

 

Just from the gut level, who ever voted for a system that tore people up and threw them to the dirt? I don't know about you but I personally have never met anybody like that and i will bet a nickel no one from any side ever did. I'm not saying there are not people like that--there are. I'm just saying it's a lot of propaganda any way it gets served to you--red, white, or blue.

 

Edited March 2, 2011 by Lucky Larry

[G-spotter]

First, we would like to thank every participant of the Jasmine Rallies. Your participation has already made the authoritarian government very nervous. Your presence has made the Chinese government understand that they must choose between these two paths:

 

The Chinese government will genuinely fight corruption and accept the supervision of the people.

Suppress popular protest, continue corruption, and continue to refuse the supervision of the people.

Every Chinese person with dreams hopes that China will become prosperous, rich, and powerful, that the people will not have to worry about food and clothing, that the government is upright and honest, and that the judiciary is impartial and just. But twenty years have passed [since the 1989 Democracy Movement], and what we are witnessing is a government that grows more corrupt by the day, government officials who collude with vested interests, and a citizenry that has not benefitted from the reform, opening up, and economic development. On the contrary, the people have to endure high goods and housing prices, and do not have health care, education, or benefits for the elderly. And what about ten years from now? Will we face a government even more corrupt? A judicial system even more opaque? Will vested interests give up their vested interest?

 

Every good and honest Chinese person, please think: So much public housing has been sold to individuals, so many state-owned enterprises and so much land have been sold, and nearly all state-owned property has been sold off. But where has all the money from these sales gone? It goes without saying that state-owned property belongs to the entire people. But what did the people get? Led by an authoritarian regime, the opaque process of privatization has made a small number of people rich, but what did the vast number of ordinary people get?

 

Every good and honest Chinese person, please think: When Japan, Korea, and Taiwan were in the process of industrializing, they were able to make the overwhelming majority of their people prosperous. Why is it that during China’s industrialization the ordinary people are becoming poorer? Why is it that in just the last few decades China has gone from being a country with the smallest gap between the rich and the poor to one with the largest? It is because the unfair system has made a small number of people incredibly wealthy, and the vast majority of people remain poor.

 

Every good and honest Chinese person, please think: Every year the government uses public money to eat and drink, buy cars, visit foreign places, and raise salaries for officials; yet it doesn’t have money to spend on health care, education, benefits for the elderly, or other basic needs. The vast majority of Chinese people do not have basic health care, education, or benefits for the elderly. Not to mention Europe, America, Japan, or Korea; our welfare system is far behind those of India, Russia, or Brazil. When other countries use the majority of their tax money for the welfare of their people, where does our tax money go?

 

Every good and honest Chinese person, please think: At present the renminbiranks first among world currencies in terms of quantity in circulation. This serious “over-issuing” of currency has brought about a vicious cycle of inflation inside China. The excessive printing of currency is recklessly diluting the value of the people’s wealth. Because the renminbi is not an international currency, it is China’s ordinary citizens who are out of luck. The meager income of China’s ordinary people must support goods and housing prices similar to those in Europe and America. On the one hand the government excessively prints money, and on the other hand it uses administrative means to keep housing prices low is this some sort of mockery?

 

Every good and honest Chinese person, please think: It is a matter of course that officials, when disclosing their wealth, should accept the supervision of the people, and that the government, when publishing details of tax revenues, should accept the supervision of the people. However, the Chinese people have no such power. We have been waiting for decades. Even if we wait for another ten years, we will not be able to get this kind of power. Should we keep on waiting? Are you willing to wait another 10 years, 20 years, 30 years?

 

In short, without pressure from the people, absolutely no authoritarian government would take the initiative to respect the people or accept the people’s supervision. What we need to do now is to put pressure on the Chinese ruling party. If the party does not conscientiously fight corruption and accept the supervision of the people, then will it please exit the stage of history. We call upon each Chinese person who has a dream for China to bravely come out to take an afternoon stroll at two o’clock on Sundays to look around. Each person who joins in will make it clear to the Chinese ruling party that if it does not fight corruption, if the government does not accept their supervision, the Chinese people will not have the patience to wait any longer.

 

We do not necessarily have to overthrow the current government. As long as the government fights corruption, the government and officials accept the people’s supervision, the government is sincere about solving the problems regarding judicial independence and freedom of expression and gives a timetable, we can give the ruling party time to solve the problems. We can call a stop to the strolling activities. We have been waiting for decades, if the government is sincere about solving the problem, we do not mind waiting a little longer. However, if the government is not sincere about solving the problems, but only wants to censor the Internet and block information to suppress the protests, the protests will only get stronger. As more and more people find out about “jasmine rallies,” there will definitely be more and more Chinese people joining in.

 

We don’t care if we implement a one party system, a two party system, or even a three party system; but we are resolute in asking the government and the officials to accept the supervision of ordinary Chinese people, and we must have an independent judiciary. This is our fundamental demand.

 

We do not support violent revolution; we continue to support non-violent non-cooperation. We invite every participant to stroll, watch, or even just pretend to pass by. As long as you are present, the authoritarian government will be shaking with fear.

 

China belongs to every Chinese person, not to any political party. China’s future will be decided by every person. We ask that the government and officials accept the supervision of the people, that the details of tax collection be published, and that taxes are genuinely “collected from the people, and used for the people.” These basic requests are not the least bit excessive. For our country’s future, for the fundamental rights of our children and future generations, please bravely come out. The Chinese people’s thirst for freedom and democracy is unstoppable (as Wen Jiabao said during an interview on CNN).

 

If you are unable to participate in the strolls, please tell every Chinese person near you: We need an upright and honest government. We need the right to supervise government tax collection. We need the right to scrutinize officials’ wealth. We need the right to publicly criticize the government. These are the fundamental rights of every Chinese person. Please tell every Chinese person near you: Non-violent non-cooperation is the only path for Chinese democratization. Please use word-of-mouth to break through the news blackout and come show your support.

 

The Chinese people rely on themselves to fight for their rights. We should not even dream that an authoritarian regime would take the initiative to award us these rights. Please join us in non-violent non-cooperation to make the Chinese government respect the basic rights of the Chinese people.

 

Time: Every Sunday starting on February 20, 2011 at 2 pm. (If the Chinese government is sincere about solving problems such as corruption and public supervision, we will send out a notice stopping the action.)

[Lucky Larry]

Tzu Kung asked: "Is there any one word that can serve as a principle for the conduct of life?" Confucius said:" Perhaps the word is 'reciprocity': Do not do to others what you would not want others to do to you"

[ivan]

"shit, if i'm gonna die for a word, that word is poon-tang"

- animal mother

 

[rob]

Dude, Larry. How high are you?

 

You don't even seem to care that only 50% of our electorate EVEN BOTHERED TO VOTE. Instead, you blather on about some vast conspiracy involving rigging elections. You've been hanging out with Bill and Kevbone too long. If they were going to rig the election, why would they have made it so close?

 

I suppose you think 9/11 was an inside job, too. It's apathetic voters like you that cause all this bullshit. You know who is supposed to hold the government accountable? YOU. With your vote.

 

What have you done to try to change the system, Larry? I mean, other than rambling (somewhat incoherently) about conspiracy theories and how the votes are all rigged, anyway. YES, it absolutely is our fault for the government we have. We are not Egypt. We have the power to legally affect change, and the avenues for doing so are right there for you. So do something, instead of moping about how none of this is our fault, we're all victims, waah waah. Sack up!

 

What do you suggest as an alternative? How would Facebook and Twitter solve this problem? I'm curious what your suggestions are.

Edited March 2, 2011 by rob

[archenemy]

The Nazi had a sign at the entrance to the death camps, "they got what they deserved."

Actually, I think it was "Work will make you free".

 

 

[rob]

Albeit Macht Frei

[Choada_Boy]

The Nazi had a sign at the entrance to the death camps, "they got what they deserved."

Actually, I think it was "Work will make you free".

 

 

Details...

 

I got to the "Nazi" part of his post and stopped reading. "Here comes the Hyper-hyperbole Express."

[ivan]

few people know that hitler's middle name was "elizabeth"

[rob]

Did you know that "voting" actually comes from the latin word, "voterous," which means "fooling the public."

 

So that proves it!