Class Warfare, Heartland USA,: Wisconsin

[rob]

Get him, j_b, get him!

[Lucky Larry]

What is negotiated is not a fixed contract in time anymore; it is a constant variable being open to renegotiation at all times. Contracts today are like contractor's or mechanic's estimates; they are not fixed and do not cover the unforeseen problems such as dry rot or formerly striped threads or predatory lending leading to the Great Depression II.

 

Is 'who's fault is it' really the pertinent question to be asking? Maybe it is if laws were broken. All investments have risks; read the fine print. The employee that trusts the hired investment firm with their $ is taking a risk. Now those investments are gone--poof, kaput, nada. The employees options are limited: suck it up, prosecute, find another job.

 

Is loan sharking illegal? Not if your a bank-wha, wha

[Nitrox]

tell me where you live and if it's in a rural area, you are likely being subsidized.

Its in my profile, dumbass.

 

So your services and infrastructure are most probably being subsidized. And here you are trying to deny public workers a fair wage when they already get paid less than private sector workers. What an hypocritical blowhard you make.

 

So you don't know. Compelling accusation you haven't made.

 

Oh yeah, almost forgot...private sector teachers make less than public school teachers. I guess you fucked that up too. SHOCKING!

 

 

[Nitrox]

You realize Oregon isn't a city in Wisconsin, don't you j_b?

 

 

[Crux]

Back from lunch, hard at work already?

[Nitrox]

Back from lunch, hard at work already?

 

Union lunch?

 

 

[Lucky Larry]

When I was unemployed, I was way too busy to be posting here.

 

Lucky you.

 

good choice, I'm slowly sinking

Edited February 22, 2011 by Lucky Larry

[Choada_Boy]

 

Oh yeah, almost forgot...private sector teachers make less than public school teachers. I guess you fucked that up too. SHOCKING!

 

 

Oh yeah, almost forgot...I'd like to see your data for this. Private schools don't make a habit of posting their compensation statistics. Until then, you're talking out your ass, again, moron.

[j_b]

So your services and infrastructure are most probably being subsidized. And here you are trying to deny public workers a fair wage when they already get paid less than private sector workers. What an hypocritical blowhard you make.

 

So you don't know. Compelling accusation you haven't made.

 

99.999% of mostly rural counties are subsidized by folks from the big city so it isn't a stretch to strongly suspect you belong to that list.

 

Oh yeah, almost forgot...private sector teachers make less than public school teachers. I guess you fucked that up too. SHOCKING!

 

we already know that you like to pay as little as you can for labor irrespective of whether it constitutes a living wage. As long as less comes out of your pocket you couldn't give a shit about anybody else.

[Nitrox]

 

Oh yeah, almost forgot...private sector teachers make less than public school teachers. I guess you fucked that up too. SHOCKING!

 

 

Oh yeah, almost forgot...I'd like to see your data for this. Private schools don't make a habit of posting their compensation statistics. Until then, you're talking out your ass, again, moron.

 

Feel free to ask Ivan.

 

 

[prole]

Gadhafi would get these shirkers back to work. Dude's like an arab Mel Gibson.

[Nitrox]

So your services and infrastructure are most probably being subsidized. And here you are trying to deny public workers a fair wage when they already get paid less than private sector workers. What an hypocritical blowhard you make.

 

So you don't know. Compelling accusation you haven't made.

 

99.999% of mostly rural counties are subsidized by folks from the big city so it isn't a stretch to strongly suspect you belong to that list.

 

Oh yeah, almost forgot...private sector teachers make less than public school teachers. I guess you fucked that up too. SHOCKING!

 

we already know that you like to pay as little as you can for labor irrespective of whether it constitutes a living wage. As long as less comes out of your pocket you couldn't give a shit about anybody else.

 

Portland City taxes don't pay for Deschutes county roads. If you mean this county pays less than larger counties pay for Interstate Highways then you'd be right since there aren't any interstate highways in this county. I don't know what the split is for standard highways as far as state matched funds, I'd be interested in seeing some hard numbers since taking your word for it isn't good enough.

 

I'd be happy to pay more if it improved the service, as it stands paying more to union state employees doesn't equal higher service.

 

 

[JayB]

There's a difference between paying state employees and over paying state employees because they hold power over the local or state government. You're stuck trying to exaggerate my position because you know I'm right.

 

You are lying. Public employees earn less than private sector employees. There is no alternative but to pay people a living wage.

 

This claim is never borne out by studies that actually add in the value of total benefits, much less those that account for the value of a particular skillset being employed in a particular job function.

 

Per these ludicrous studies, someone with a BS in electrical engineering from a top-tier school, that actually works somewhere designing computer chips is put in the same basket as someone with a BA in sociology that works feeding documents into a scanner.

 

"Look - when you don't account for the fact that this person with a sociology degree works a straight 40 hour week, or the value of all of their benefits, and pretend that a private employer would pay someone who feeds documents into a scanner the same as someone who works in chip design...public employees are underpaid."

 

Ditto for all of the other credentials that are held by folks in the public sector that have absolutely zero capacity to enhance earnings in the private sector. What, exactly, does a PhD in Education get you in the private sector? How about a master's in Teaching?

 

The only class of public employees that surveys that actually incorporate half-decent controls show make less than their private sector counterparts are people with professional degrees or qualifications that there's an actual market for in the private sector. Even here that's probably only true for MD's, JD's, RN's, and a smattering of engineers. I salute these folks, but no one was or is putting a gun to their head, and when and if they decide the compensation the public is offering them is inadequate, they can and should leave.

 

If their vacancies can't be filled, we should pay more - in the form of higher salaries that show up immediately on public balance sheets as opposed to detonating decades later in the form of massive pension shortfalls.

[j_b]

YOU don't get to pick and chose what taxes you'd like ot pay. Nobody else does, except for the obscenely rich that you shill for (like the Koch brothers). ANyway, you benefit indirectly from an educated population but we have already gone over this and it's not like I expect you to get it.

[j_b]

This claim is never borne out by studies that actually add in the value of total benefits, much less those that account for the value of a particular skillset being employed in a particular job function.

 

Per these ludicrous studies, someone with a BS in electrical engineering from a top-tier school, that actually works somewhere designing computer chips is put in the same basket as someone with a BA in sociology that works feeding documents into a scanner.

 

"Look - when you don't account for the fact that this person with a sociology degree works a straight 40 hour week, or the value of all of their benefits, and pretend that a private employer would pay someone who feeds documents into a scanner the same as someone who works in chip design...public employees are underpaid."

 

Ditto for all of the other credentials that are held by folks in the public sector that have absolutely zero capacity to enhance earnings in the private sector. What, exactly, does a PhD in Education get you in the private sector? How about a master's in Teaching?

 

The only class of public employees that surveys that actually incorporate half-decent controls show make less than their private sector counterparts are people with professional degrees or qualifications that there's an actual market for in the private sector. Even here that's probably only true for MD's, JD's, RN's, and a smattering of engineers. I salute these folks, but no one was or is putting a gun to their head, and when and if they decide the compensation the public is offering them is inadequate, they can and should leave.

 

If their vacancies can't be filled, we should pay more - in the form of higher salaries that show up immediately on public balance sheets as opposed to detonating decades later in the form of massive pension shortfalls.

 

more fuzzy arithmetic from laissez faire boy. Education isn't worth anything according to this joker since schools don't directly make money. Is this supposed to pass for intellectualism in your parts?

Edited February 22, 2011 by j_b

[Crux]

One wonders what kind of professional future there can be for a lab rat who acts as though hard-wired to falsify data.

[JayB]

So your services and infrastructure are most probably being subsidized. And here you are trying to deny public workers a fair wage when they already get paid less than private sector workers. What an hypocritical blowhard you make.

 

So you don't know. Compelling accusation you haven't made.

 

99.999% of mostly rural counties are subsidized by folks from the big city so it isn't a stretch to strongly suspect you belong to that list.

 

Oh yeah, almost forgot...private sector teachers make less than public school teachers. I guess you fucked that up too. SHOCKING!

 

we already know that you like to pay as little as you can for labor irrespective of whether it constitutes a living wage. As long as less comes out of your pocket you couldn't give a shit about anybody else.

 

What - exactly - constitutes a living wage?

 

What should happen when that wage exceeds the amount of revenue that the people who receive it actually generate for their employers?

 

If the employer can't price his goods or services at a level that can sustain pay above a given wage level - that is, pass the expenses along to his or her customers - what happens to the employee and the business that he's employed by?

[rob]

What - exactly - constitutes a living wage?

 

What should happen when that wage exceeds the amount of revenue that the people who receive it actually generate for their employers?

 

If the employer can't price his goods or services at a level that can sustain pay above a given wage level - that is, pass the expenses along to his or her customers - what happens to the employee and the business that he's employed by?

 

It's a good thing police and fire employees are subsidized.

[j_b]

[video:youtube]yeDwlFAsOXM

[JayB]

This claim is never borne out by studies that actually add in the value of total benefits, much less those that account for the value of a particular skillset being employed in a particular job function.

 

Per these ludicrous studies, someone with a BS in electrical engineering from a top-tier school, that actually works somewhere designing computer chips is put in the same basket as someone with a BA in sociology that works feeding documents into a scanner.

 

"Look - when you don't account for the fact that this person with a sociology degree works a straight 40 hour week, or the value of all of their benefits, and pretend that a private employer would pay someone who feeds documents into a scanner the same as someone who works in chip design...public employees are underpaid."

 

Ditto for all of the other credentials that are held by folks in the public sector that have absolutely zero capacity to enhance earnings in the private sector. What, exactly, does a PhD in Education get you in the private sector? How about a master's in Teaching?

 

The only class of public employees that surveys that actually incorporate half-decent controls show make less than their private sector counterparts are people with professional degrees or qualifications that there's an actual market for in the private sector. Even here that's probably only true for MD's, JD's, RN's, and a smattering of engineers. I salute these folks, but no one was or is putting a gun to their head, and when and if they decide the compensation the public is offering them is inadequate, they can and should leave.

 

If their vacancies can't be filled, we should pay more - in the form of higher salaries that show up immediately on public balance sheets as opposed to detonating decades later in the form of massive pension shortfalls.

 

more fuzzy arithmetic from laissez faire boy. Education isn't worth anything according to this joker since schools don't directly make money. Is this supposed to pass for intellectualism in your parts?

 

There's lots of fields of study that have much to commend them even if they aren't the least bit useful in generating an income - but studies that attempt to correlate pay and credentials aren't the place to indulge in completely subjective value judgments about what a given degree should be worth in some fictional world where there's an equal demand for all degrees.

[j_b]

What - exactly - constitutes a living wage?

 

What should happen when that wage exceeds the amount of revenue that the people who receive it actually generate for their employers?

 

If the employer can't price his goods or services at a level that can sustain pay above a given wage level - that is, pass the expenses along to his or her customers - what happens to the employee and the business that he's employed by?

 

don't pretend we can compete with slave labor in developing nations and it'll be fine, like it was before you imposed your "free trade" scam (I.e. NAFAT, etc..).

[rob]

We should totally cut military spending. Those fuckers can't even pay their own way.

[JayB]

What - exactly - constitutes a living wage?

 

What should happen when that wage exceeds the amount of revenue that the people who receive it actually generate for their employers?

 

If the employer can't price his goods or services at a level that can sustain pay above a given wage level - that is, pass the expenses along to his or her customers - what happens to the employee and the business that he's employed by?

 

It's a good thing police and fire employees are subsidized.

 

Should they be paid more than necessary to staff police and fire stations with qualified employees? How does the public benefit from that?

 

 

[j_b]

 

more fuzzy arithmetic from laissez faire boy. Education isn't worth anything according to this joker since schools don't directly make money. Is this supposed to pass for intellectualism in your parts?

 

There's lots of fields of study that have much to commend them even if they aren't the least bit useful in generating an income - but studies that attempt to correlate pay and credentials aren't the place to indulge in completely subjective value judgments about what a given degree should be worth in some fictional world where there's an equal demand for all degrees.

 

What? because education isn't absolutely necessary for our economy? or all of the functions performed by public secotr workers: we don't need the freakin nurses, sanitation workers, etc JayB? Aren't these people as necessary as all others? what the fuck are you talking about?

[rob]

What - exactly - constitutes a living wage?

 

What should happen when that wage exceeds the amount of revenue that the people who receive it actually generate for their employers?

 

If the employer can't price his goods or services at a level that can sustain pay above a given wage level - that is, pass the expenses along to his or her customers - what happens to the employee and the business that he's employed by?

 

It's a good thing police and fire employees are subsidized.

 

Should they be paid more than necessary to staff police and fire stations with qualified employees? How does the public benefit from that?

 

 

More than NECESSARY? In other words, you're saying you should pay them the absolute LEAST you can, and not a penny more. Enough to BARELY make them schlep into work, but JUST ENOUGH to keep them from quitting.

 

Really? Is that how you'd treat your employees?