Hugh Conway Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 You driving in SF is like you attending an Evangelical Women's Vegan Temperance Conference and trying not to piss anyone off. you'd be surprised what i can pull off on a related note, san francisco also has the finest church buildering i've ever enjoyed Why such Godless country even bothers with churches I'll never know. Because there's a whole legacy of interesting immigrants before the dumb hippies and yuppies showed up? You know, that culture you prattle on about being awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 You know, that culture you prattle on about being awesome. you mean the one that caped sean penn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 "Islam is grrrrrreat! Taxpayer $$$$ for abortions in danger from da thumpers, oh my!! Bullet trains to nowhere: or, let's tax grandma outta her house!!! I'M KINGA THE WORLD!!!!" Would somebody here please call TTK's pharmacist. His dosage is off. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 You know, that culture you prattle on about being awesome. you mean the one that caped sean penn? yeah baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 just give him some sperm FW - TTK functions on that, dingdongs, and the excrescence of Ariana Huffington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) Taxpayer $$$$ for abortions... where's that from? hardly sounds like an evil thing: http://www.hhs.gov/opa/familyplanning/ Edited February 16, 2011 by ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 just give him some sperm FW - TTK functions on that, dingdongs, and the excrescence of Ariana Huffington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 holy shit, this is vaguely creepy though, even if title x don't cover it http://www.hhs.gov/opa/embryoadoption/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 This is great news for all of the poor people who can afford to buy property in the expensive neighborhoods that sit adjacent to rail-based transit lines! Yeah, low income folks who can't live within walking distance of mass transit get zero benefit from it, right? Pretty much on par with the rest of your...ehm...logic. I'd actually argue that the benefits of public expenditures on mass transit are overwhelmingly captured by and/or transferred into the hands of people who are a long way from being poor. The poor certainly do benefit, but they are a long, long way away from being the primary beneficiaries of such expenditures. "The poor" are to mass transit subsidies what "Green Energy" or "Energy Independence" are to corn ethanol subsidies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Mass transit isn't a 'benefit' to the low income folks who depend on it to get back and forth to work and school, it's a basic necessity. By concentrating urban development along the route, it also provides accessible jobs for that very same group. The lack of mass transit in key areas removes one of the most important rungs in the ladder out of poverty - the ability to get to work and school in an affordable, reliable fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 $400 billion...for a plane. That would buy a new national grid and high speed rail system with change left over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Mass transit isn't a 'benefit' to the low income folks who depend on it to get back and forth to work and school, it's a basic necessity. By concentrating urban development along the route, it also provides accessible jobs for that very same group. The lack of mass transit in key areas removes one of the most important rungs in the ladder out of poverty - the ability to get to work and school in an affordable, reliable fashion. What evidence do you have to suggest that plotting rail-based mass transit routes has anything to do with the transportation needs of poor people? If anything, the study that you linked suggests a tendency for rail transit to price them out of neighborhoods that are in close proximity to rail lines. When push comes to shove, as it has with Metro - service is the first thing that gets cut. If getting poor people from point A to point B was the foremost priority, just the opposite would happen. It's much easier to understand the priorities that actuate the development and maintenance of public mass transit operations as a heavily unionized patronage network with benefits that aggregate primarily to the non-poor than a means of helping poor people getting too and from work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 What evidence do you have to suggest that plotting rail-based mass transit routes has anything to do with the transportation needs of poor people? If anything, the study that you linked suggests a tendency for rail transit to price them out of neighborhoods that are in close proximity to rail lines. Opposition from established wealthy communities to rail service? Georgetown and Metro being a shining example - it doesn't have a stop because they didn't want the poor. Various uppity Bay Area subs (Palo Alto, etc) who oppose high speed rail being secondary. Wealth follows public trans in America, not vice versa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'd actually argue that the benefits of public expenditures on mass transit are overwhelmingly captured by and/or transferred into the hands of people who are a long way from being poor. The poor certainly do benefit, but they are a long, long way away from being the primary beneficiaries of such expenditures. you clearly don't ride the bus very often. "The poor" are to mass transit subsidies what "Green Energy" or "Energy Independence" are to corn ethanol subsidies. hyperbolic blowhard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'd actually argue that the benefits of public expenditures on mass transit are overwhelmingly captured by and/or transferred into the hands of people who are a long way from being poor. The poor certainly do benefit, but they are a long, long way away from being the primary beneficiaries of such expenditures. you clearly don't ride the bus very often. "The poor" are to mass transit subsidies what "Green Energy" or "Energy Independence" are to corn ethanol subsidies. hyperbolic blowhard. I ride the bus every day. You're the one who's full of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 What evidence do you have to suggest that plotting rail-based mass transit routes has anything to do with the transportation needs of poor people? If anything, the study that you linked suggests a tendency for rail transit to price them out of neighborhoods that are in close proximity to rail lines. you just have to build the line further out, which can only happen if you have build a central grid. Are you really this clueless? When push comes to shove, as it has with Metro - service is the first thing that gets cut. If getting poor people from point A to point B was the foremost priority, just the opposite would happen. It's much easier to understand the priorities that actuate the development and maintenance of public mass transit operations as a heavily unionized patronage network with benefits that aggregate primarily to the non-poor than a means of helping poor people getting too and from work. here comes the attacks on public workers. Did anyone ever hear JayB bitch about doctor salaries and their unions? what an hypocrite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I ride the bus every day. You're the one who's full of shit. Edited February 17, 2011 by j_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'd actually argue that the benefits of public expenditures on mass transit are overwhelmingly captured by and/or transferred into the hands of people who are a long way from being poor. The poor certainly do benefit, but they are a long, long way away from being the primary beneficiaries of such expenditures. you clearly don't ride the bus very often. "The poor" are to mass transit subsidies what "Green Energy" or "Energy Independence" are to corn ethanol subsidies. hyperbolic blowhard. I don't ride the bus because I commute by bike. I've walked or biked to work or school for all but three years since 1992, so I see your eco-righteousness and raise you a dozen worn out chainrings. What percentage of Metro ridership is below the poverty line? How about on The Sounder and the S.L.U.T. I ride past the S.L.U.T. every day, and when all 20 tons of it aren't almost completely empty on off-peak hours, it's filled with people that work for Microsoft, Amazon, and whoever else has operations in SLU.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 What evidence do you have to suggest that plotting rail-based mass transit routes has anything to do with the transportation needs of poor people? If anything, the study that you linked suggests a tendency for rail transit to price them out of neighborhoods that are in close proximity to rail lines. Opposition from established wealthy communities to rail service? Georgetown and Metro being a shining example - it doesn't have a stop because they didn't want the poor. Various uppity Bay Area subs (Palo Alto, etc) who oppose high speed rail being secondary. Wealth follows public trans in America, not vice versa Couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I don't ride the bus because I commute by bike. I've walked or biked to work or school for all but three years since 1992, so I see your eco-righteousness and raise you a dozen worn out chainrings. it had nothing to do with eco-righteousness and everything about knowing who rides the bus. [ What percentage of Metro ridership is below the poverty line? How about on The Sounder and the S.L.U.T. exactly, you don't even know and yet you are pontificating. I don't have the numbers but I am willing to bet that a large majority of bus riders in seattle/king county are lower midde class and poor (although with your economic legacy it's hard to tell the difference nowadays) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I don't ride the bus because I commute by bike. I've walked or biked to work or school for all but three years since 1992, so I see your eco-righteousness and raise you a dozen worn out chainrings. it had nothing to do with eco-righteousness and everything about knowing who rides the bus. [ What percentage of Metro ridership is below the poverty line? How about on The Sounder and the S.L.U.T. exactly, you don't even know and yet you are pontificating. I don't have the numbers but I am willing to bet that a large majority of bus riders in seattle/king county are lower midde class and poor (although with your economic legacy it's hard to tell the difference nowadays) Tell us what bus route(s) you ride j_b. I'll check them out to tabulate all the "poor folk" on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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