AVI Probes

[mzvarner]

What is a good length probe to own? And what is with all the different lengths? Is it all dependent on the depth of snow pack and how much weight people want to carry?

Edited November 8, 2010 by mzvarner

[counterfeitfake]

Is it all dependent on the depth of snow pack and how much weight people want to carry?

 

Yes, and cost. Get a long one, a few extra ounces isn't much and it would suck to have a 200 cm probe when your buddy is buried 205 cm deep. I think common advice is go longer than 240 cm. Avoid the ones that fit inside a shovel or ski poles.

[mzvarner]

ya im not worried about weight, in reality avi probes, even the long ones are light. I was just curious.

[kevino]

But can you dig 2.5 meters fast enough?

[summitchaserCJB]

That's a good question Kevino.

[RaisedByPikas]

I'd rather have the chance to try to dig 2.5m fast enough (especially if the victim has an avalung) than not be able to find them in the first place

 

I too am a noob backcountry skier looking for a probe so is there a point where having a long probe will slow you down because it becomes unwieldy? BCA makes a 3.4m probe, is this probe more difficult or slower to use because its super long?

[ilookeddown]

I use the quick draw guide 300 by BD. It is almost 10’ and very easy to deploy. It is also marked every cm so it allows me to measure the depth of the snow pack when digging a pit. In a maritime snow pack it is best to have a longer probe.

 

I don’t think the length of a probe will slow anyone down. Like anything, practicing and being familiar with your gear is what makes all the difference.

 

[Mattski]

As a tool for rescue and safety, 280 should be the minimum length out of respect for any future partner your ride with. Debris is commonly 6-10 feet deep so 280 is a good basline to work with.

 

There are many case studies regarding the failure of short and skinny probes breaking or failing to go deep enough. I have a BD 300 and find it easy to use.

[Hugh Conway]

There are many case studies regarding the failure of short and skinny probes breaking or failing to go deep enough. I have a BD 300 and find it easy to use.

 

"many"? yes, there's random internet stories, I'm curious what represents a probe not deep enough. 2m is a shit-ton of avalanche debris to move.

 

2.4m, 2.8m, 3m, much of a muchness; the longer are more useful for crevasse probing. 3.4m would get to be a bit unwieldly for fine probing a relatively shallow burial. The tech propes w/a ruler on them are useful for pit work.

[ilookeddown]

I see your point for shallow burials but it also easier to locate a victim with a transiver. The shallower they are the less you have to take into account the depth of the burial when calculating the distance from the victim. When I took my Avy 2 class we buried a transiver at the bottom of the snowpack. When the (rescuer) tried to locate the (victim) he couldn’t understand why he couldn’t get a reading closer than 9 ft. Great lesson learned there and something I think people in a stressful situation may not account for.

 

I toured through the area where the December 2003 avalanche killed a lady snowshoeing in the Alpental Valley a few months after the incident. The snowpack had settled and there were several broken probes in the area of the search. I did not examine them too close but it looked like the cord failed inside the probes rather than the probe links. I understand it was a huge search effort with lasting multiple days. Here is link. Interesting reading:

 

http://www.nwac.us/media/uploads/documents/accidents/2003_2004/Alpental_Patrol_Accident_Report.pdf

 

There was also the slab slide in December 2007 in the Alpental BC. Who knows how deep one could have been buried in that one. Link:

 

http://www.nwac.us/photos/view/51/

 

In 2008 I came across a huge slide in the Gold Creek Valley over a month after the slide that I posted here.

 

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/781489/Alta_Peak_Avalanche_Pictures_t#Post781489

 

Because of these and other large slides is the reason I go with as longer probe. It doesn’t hurt to carry a few extra ounces if it helps you locate your buddy especially if they were able to employ an avalung.

 

[kevino]

Thanks for the good info. I should mention that my earlier comment was a running joke I have with some of my skiing buddies. I agree that a longer, but not too long of a probe is good to carry. I'd rather have a chance at digging up a buddy rather than not being able to reach him/her at all.

[Hugh Conway]

I see your point for shallow burials but it also easier to locate a victim with a transiver. The shallower they are the less you have to take into account the depth of the burial when calculating the distance from the victim. When I took my Avy 2 class we buried a transiver at the bottom of the snowpack. When the (rescuer) tried to locate the (victim) he couldn’t understand why he couldn’t get a reading closer than 9 ft. Great lesson learned there and something I think people in a stressful situation may not account for.

 

erm, I was speaking to fine probing at the end of the beacon search. on your knees on the snow it's harder to handle a longer probe, ime.

 

What you want in a probeline probe is different and mostly irrelevant to the BC user, which is why at least one of your examples is irrelevant; the others because you'd be dead.

[ilookeddown]

I was using the irrelevant example in reference the probes breaking in the field. I do not want to speculate whether a probe would have made a difference one way or the other if the victim had an operational transiver at the time of the incident.

 

On the other two examples, I am going to respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Al least until that is conformed after recovery.

 

[Zoran]

I have 220 Pieps Carbon.

http://www.pieps.com/en/avalanche-probes/pieps-probe-carbon

 

Noticed that people worry about length of the probe and buy 260 or 300 probes. This is very good ...

 

At the same time some carry small size plastic or metal shovels.

I have Mammut Alugator Expert.

http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/product_Mammut-Alugator-Expert-Shovel_10085215____?cm_mmc=Affiliate-_-AvantLink-_-na-_-3057_f106d7f5&ad_id=Avant&avad=3057_f106d7f5

 

It's great when my partner finds me deep below at 2.5m but how fast he can dig me out with kids size shovel?

 

I cut on the length of the probe to add on the size of the shovel. Maybe not very good option. It can slow you down if you are in hurry.

[Hugh Conway]

I'd rather have someone who understands how to shovel w/a reasonable blade. Strategic shoveling:

http://www.alpineclubofcanada.ca/services/safety/forms/shoveling_technique.pdf

 

On the other two examples, I am going to respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Al least until that is conformed after recovery.

 

dear god the Alta Peak slide took out mature trees

[ilookeddown]

It’s obvious that we are not going to have a consensus on this subject. I am not in a position to determine the percentage of survivability of any accident. I do however have a responsibility to the people I choose to tour with. So I guess I will continue to carry my long probe and hope I won’t have to use it.

[Bronco]

According to the article linked by Hugh (great article btw):

 

"the average burial depth in the US is 1.16 meters (according to CAIC data). Below two meters, the chances of survival are extremely low: only 11 of the 126 people (9%) have survived burials deeper than 2 meters."

 

That being said, I have three probes of various length and weight and will select based on the terrain and conditions I'm traveling in.