climber 9-1-1 - need your input on devices

[Rad]

For those of you who haven't seen it, you might enjoy the article we put together on the role of signaling devices in mountain rescues: Climber 9-1-1 in the NWMJ

 

 

But I'm posting because I have been asked to do another piece focused on devices and I want to solicit your input.

Are there any useful devices we missed?

Any errors you found that need correction?

Comments from your experiences?

Any comments on cell phone texting vs calling in the mtns - I hear there may be times when texts will go through when calls won't. True?

Other comments?

Thanks,

Rad

 

[pms]

really excellent piece I thought.

[JoshK]

 

I hadn't seen this yet, so thanks for the link.

 

Any comments on cell phone texting vs calling in the mtns - I hear there may be times when texts will go through when calls won't. True?

Other comments?

 

 

From personal experience, I can say this is indeed true. Thankfully I've never had to use a cell phone for emergency purposes, but for a while I used mine a music player so I generally had it with me. In several locations I was unable to get a good enough signal to complete a call successfully, but with some patience I was able to dispatch and receive text messages during the brief periods of good signal from a summit or high point. This allowed me to get a weather update from a friend once and another time ask somebody to feed my cat while I was gone.

 

Cell phone reception is also highly variable between carriers. In several instances I have seen Verizon get a signal when other carriers have not. Recently I saw the opposite happen for the first time: Verizon was not getting a signal while another carrier was.

 

I can think of one time where my cell phone came in very handy not to contact SAR, but to make sure SAR was *not* contacted. The descent from Mt. Index was taking longer than expected so we used a cell phone to call family and let them know we were fine but were going to bivy another night. However, this is a rather special case because we took the phone specifically because we knew Mt. Index was within the cell service area and was notorious for lengthy descents.

 

The incidents where cell phones were used highlighted in your article seem to fall in to two categories in my mind. In the case of the Mt. Terror rescue from last year, it seems a cell phone played a very key role helping a party do a great job recovering from a random accident that befell them. Indeed it was an important tool for them to use. In the avalanche incidents (Crystal Mt. and Granite Mt.), at least from the armchair perspective, it seems the phones may have given a false since of security and allowed the individuals to bail themselves out after making poor decisions that led to them requiring help.

 

[Rad]

Thanks. I look forward to more responses.

 

FYI, the Crystal skier wrote about his experience on line, acknowledging he took more risks than usual, but he attributed his increased comfort to having another party nearby (next gully over) and having safely done another run in the same area earlier in the afternoon.

 

[JoshK]

Thanks. I look forward to more responses.

 

FYI, the Crystal climber wrote about his experience on line, acknowledging he took more risks than usual, but he attributed his increased comfort to having another party nearby (next gully over) and having safely done another run in the same area earlier in the afternoon.

 

Yeah, I read his account online and recalled him being self critical of the decision making that resulted in the accident. It was a really good (and useful) writeup because I could see making those decisions, feeling the extra sense of security from people nearby.

 

As somebody who goes out solo quite often, if I think there is a chance of getting cell service, at this point I will generally take my phone. I would like to think I don't let this give me a false sense of security, but who knows, maybe I'm subconsciously fooling myself?

[Rad]

Anyone out there use the SPOT II or McMurdo FastFind or another PLB? Comments/feedback?

[goatboy]

Hey Rad,

 

I actually have a Spot II and haven't really found much use for it, but you're welcome to borrow it if you want to field test it at any point.

 

It's very user-friendly in terms of being able to distinguish between types of outgoing messages: there's a separate 911/HELP button, and another button that is to send a pre-established message (i.e. "we're on our itinerary" or "we're going to go back the way we came in.")

[chris]

I've been considering the Spot II for 3 day+ trips without cell phone reception, where calling for help will be considerably faster than hiking out or waiting to be overdue. A client recently used a Spot II on our trip, and I liked the small size, simplicity, and ruggedness.

[pcg]

Any errors you found that need correction?

 

Just an edit to " there was no sign of the other two, who are still missing and presumed dead."

Both bodies were recovered by PMR in late August.

[Zoran]

Thank you for your presentation. It's very valuable to all of us. We recently had three missing persons near Vancouver BC. Very tragic events and our hiking/climbing community is still coping with that. Three young lives are lost.

 

We had Spot on Denali in 2008 and it was good for tracking the movement. Issue was that (probably?) because of not very skilled use, log and data were wiped out suddenly. Spot was used exclusively by one person and I never paid attention to it.

 

Our families worried, until we borrowed the sat phone at Camp 4. Since then, my wife is not very supportive of any of my plans to go somewhere. On Logan we had a sat phone (GlobalStar with one battery only). Service was not very good but we managed to use it. It was OK but I personally think texting is the way to go.

 

Combination of Earthmate and Spot looks promising but price is outrageous. Even with the pro-deal offer I can't afford it.

 

I am in constant search for the affordable and reliable solution.

 

Zoran

 

P.S.

 

How about to integrate sliding keyboard in Spot, add small screen, slash price to 50$ for hardware and add pay-to-go option. Buying SIM card fof 10$, 20$, 50$ or more will make sense. Also, charge per text message should be 25 cents or less.

 

:-)

 

Maybe GlobalFinder from Pieps will be the solution? We don't have all technical data yet but it could have a satellite modem as an option. Let's see the price when it comes out.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Zoran

[pcg]

Are there any useful devices we missed?

Amateur radio devices typically have higher power, operate at more frequencies, and can often hit repeaters in areas where cell phones cannot hit cell towers. Downside is a license is required although the requirements are fairly easy nowadays.

Edited September 19, 2010 by pcg

[Rad]

Are there any useful devices we missed?

Amateur radio devices typically have higher power, operate at more frequencies, and can often hit repeaters in areas where cell phones cannot hit cell towers. Downside is a license is required although the requirements are fairly easy nowadays.

 

I looked into this a bit, but ran into two challenges:

 

1 - the FCC license requirement. Can you tell us what the "fairly easy" process is that solves this issue?

 

2 - The people you're really want to talk to (law enforcement and rangers) won't tell you what frequency they use for their communication. What's the solution for that? On Mt Rainier, a number of recues were initiated by guide services with radios, but they're on the horn with the rangers and know the frequencies. Any advice on how to know what channel to use?

 

3 - If you can solve 1 and 2 above, what are the best units to consider? One can spend $50 on a radio or $250. I couldn't tell from product descriptions much difference in technical performance of these. PErhaps you can enlighten me.

 

Feel free to pm if you don't want to post #2 here. Thanks.

Rad

Edited September 21, 2010 by Rad

[Rad]

Any errors you found that need correction?

 

Just an edit to " there was no sign of the other two, who are still missing and presumed dead."

Both bodies were recovered by PMR in late August.

 

That rings a bell. This is for the 2009 accident, right? Let me know and we'll correct it (one advantage of web-based publishing). Thanks.

[olyclimber]

Are there any useful devices we missed?

Amateur radio devices typically have higher power, operate at more frequencies, and can often hit repeaters in areas where cell phones cannot hit cell towers. Downside is a license is required although the requirements are fairly easy nowadays.

 

I looked into this a bit, but ran into two challenges:

 

1 - the FAA license requirement. Can you tell us what the "fairly easy" process is that solves this issue?

 

2 - The people you're really want to talk to (law enforcement and rangers) won't tell you what frequency they use for their communication. What's the solution for that? On Mt Rainier, a number of recues were initiated by guide services with radios, but they're on the horn with the rangers and know the frequencies. Any advice on how to know what channel to use?

 

3 - If you can solve 1 and 2 above, what are the best units to consider? One can spend $50 on a radio or $250. I couldn't tell from product descriptions much difference in technical performance of these. PErhaps you can enlighten me.

 

Feel free to pm if you don't want to post #2 here. Thanks.

Rad

 

1. It is actually the FCC. You have to pass a test(s), depending on what license you want. The tests are very easy, and will give you geek street cred. Make sure to get a tattoo with your call sign.

 

2. You can find all the frequency info online. Hams are the biggest geeks out there, and love to share such info. If you can hit a HAM repeater, its as good as calling the police. they'll be listening for you. thats what they live for. On one trip had a guy with a broken leg on Mt Olympus just above the Blue Glacier, radio call was put in and hit Victoria BC, chopper picked him up the next day.

 

3. best radio depends on the situation. 2m radios have the most repeaters in then NW (better for a local situation) and you can go 5 watts with the entry level licence. Or you can go QRP (low power) and hit some guy in Germany who will send you a rescue party in the North Cascades. LOL.

 

KD7OKN monitoring...

 

 

 

 

[olyclimber]

Any errors you found that need correction?

 

Just an edit to " there was no sign of the other two, who are still missing and presumed dead."

Both bodies were recovered by PMR in late August.

 

That rings a bell. This is for the 2009 accident, right? Let me know and we'll correct it (one advantage of web-based publishing). Thanks.

 

http://www.katu.com/news/local/101605443.html

[Rad]

Muchas gracias. Yes, FCC. Unless you're flying while radioing.

 

Got a link to a site with info and/or a bunch of NW radio geeks to answer newbie questions? (e.g. what does "2m" mean? Is that a 2 meter wavelength?)

 

Got an article or more info on the Blue Glacier incident you mentioned?

 

Sounds like radio is worth comparing...

[olyclimber]

http://www.mikeandkey.org/links.htm#clubs_northwest

warning: this is extreme geek territory. not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

2m is 2 meter wavelength.

 

 

No link to info on the accident. It was when I was working for Camp Parsons. The Camp Director came along with us. We warned the boys on the way out (and him) about the rocks creating cavities, but he didn't get the message and got too close to the rocks and fell through...breaking his leg. I ran down to the rangers and they called out and hit Victoria.

[Rad]

Excellent. Thx

[Coldfinger]

Devices? How about a lighter? Funny how nobody seems to mention a whole host of old school but very effective means of signaling.

 

My 2cents: it's not so much that people are taking more risks because of high tech signaling devices and cell phones, from what I've seen here in the Wind River Range, it's that there are a whole host of folks who don't spend the time to learn a lot of "old school" outdoor skills, but get in over their head largely due to placing confidence in their "other" equipment (miraculous how light everything is, and expensive) rather than experience. Just seems particularly true of winter trips and some of the truly excellent gear that does indeed make it easier but not much less dangerous.

[Rad]

What are you going to do with a lighter? Build a fire? That's not very feasible in the alpine and not very ecofriendly in many locations. Nothing wrong with mirrors and waving red jackets etc, but those will only help rescuers pinpoint your location once they're already in the area searching. Got any other "old school" things worth mentioning?