Grades and Differences Erie vs Frenchmans

[selkirk]

In general, thinking and runaway mental babble IS the problem with fear so I wouldn't recommend making the internal 'dialogue' any worse then it already is - better to just stay focused 100% on the task at hand versus doing more 'talking' to try and 'calm' yourself.

 

First tip for breaking 5.10/.11 - lose 5, 10 or 15 pounds if you have it hanging around. It makes it a lot easier to bust a grade.

 

For me anyway the break from Stiff 5.8/soft 5.9 to stiff 5.9/mid 5.10 was entirely mental. It seemed like climbs at that grade weren't super physical and didn't require killer crimp strength or biceps of steel (save a few at Index ), they really required the headspace to relax and flow and find the best sequence. However, the break from mid 5.10 to stiff 5.10/5.11 (and/or Index 5.10a!) definitely involved some bouldering, and focus on strength to weight ratio. Haven't gotten past there yet

 

You certainly don't want to make the internal babble worse, and I wasn't so much recommending using anything as a mantra, but more of an approach or state of mind. For me anyway recognizing which fears are limiting me, and what fears are keeping me safe is a very important distinction, and was the real key that allowed me to get past 5.10 (and has kept quite a few climbers I know stuck in the 5.9 and lower range, even if they are physically capable of much harder climbs).

 

I've always thought that when my headspace is good, then climbing becomes an awful lot like meditation. No inner dialogue whatsoever, highly focused and analytical yet without conscious thought, focused on the next 2 moves yet aware of everything going on, tense yet utterly relaxed. Something akin to the Taoist concept of Wu wei with a healthy dose of Pu' thrown in Or Zazen is pretty close.

 

That said using a mantra of some sort to help focus and cultivate that state has a nice long history. If it's just added clutter that defeats the purpose, but if it helps remove clutter than it could help, whether it's some eastern chant, or something like the Littany or hell I have buddy who used to sing Cat Steven's whenever he got stressed... It's all good

 

And Tom get's some serious Geek point

 

[Pilchuck71]

First of all I would like to thank everyone that has taken the time to contribute to this thread and say it is refreshing to get some genuine, honest input on this and witness/participate in a good discourse and positive use of CC.com server space.

Thanks -

 

@Billcoe

-"don't hang out with old pussys all the time I tell them...." but they keep coming back anyway. "

 

Pushing forty and have a newborn. I am still the youngest of my main partners (which can lull a sucker into thinking he is fit) and feel like I am slipping toward"old pussy" status as I type.

What I do have though is a pocket full of motivation, partly in the form of my daughter, to be healthier and also to make the limited time out really count.

 

@Selkirk

 

- "For me anyway the break from Stiff 5.8/soft 5.9 to stiff 5.9/mid 5.10"

That is as far as I am headed at this point.So I am happy to believe it to be a reasonable goal.

 

- "headspace to relax and flow and find the best sequence"

I think you are nailing the concept I am working with and so far finding results that I am completely satisfied with.

 

- "aware of everything going on, tense yet utterly relaxed."

I have had experiences reaching this state when at a point of "giving over". I remember a specific incident recently when I started to get nervous and I could "hear" the shift in my mental state/internal dialouge and doubted the presence of any holds and was able to quickly move my thoughts back toward the fact that the holds had been there moments before (the previous 50ft of slab) and that I had options. I could either take a breath and commit and the holds would be there, where I needed them and I could continue, or I could hesitate longer and focus on the lack of holds and I could take the fall (safely). The moment I relaxed and aknowledged both options, it did not matter which happened both were acceptable to me and I relaxed (with focus), committed and sent. I never lost the tension 100% but it was no longer a hinderance it was just an aspect of the experience.

 

- " It's all good "

Exactly. Everyone has their own mental triggers.

 

@ Sherri

- "Partners like that are both a support and an inspiration, especially when you share the goal of helping each other to attain personal best. "

I could not agree more. It makes stuff a lot more fun as well.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rad]

P,

Like you, I was a trad climber for years before coming to sport and then a little bouldering. Bouldering in the gym regularly made a big difference for me. It can expand your repertoire of moves, increase finger and forearm strength, and help you become more dynamic when needed. You'll also get to watch how better climbers float up the moves that stump you and connect with partners stronger than you.

You may find that up to 5.8 or 5.9 you are solid and can stop at any point to place gear or snap a pic etc. Trad climbing is often equated with static climbing, but it doesn't have to be that way. As you go from 5.9 into 10s and 11s there will probably be sections of climbs that feel at your limit, where you can't pause without falling. Learn to climb through these to the next stance where you can rest/clip/place gear. Work rests as noted above and gun through the sections that are harder. In a similar vein, sometimes it's more efficient to dyno/deadpoint to a good hold than burn energy on crappy intermediate holds. Also, it helps to try climbs harder than you think you can do, even if it gets ugly, so you get the feeling of harder moves. If shooting for easy 10s make sure to get on some hard 10s. If shooting for mid to hard 10s then try some 11s etc.

There are some good training books out there, and some good thoughts in this thread. I used to think that climbing harder is just about pulling harder, and that the mental aspect was a separate dimension. Now I'm learning that strength and training are part of the mental game too. In short, everything is in your head. If you are motivated, persistent and intelligent in your training, and stay healthy you should easily achieve your goals. I set myself some redpoint goals to hit before turning 40. I wasn't sure if I could make them, but I knew that trying would likely bump up my level, and it has, opening a whole new set of possible routes to target. I finally hit my objectives this spring, at 42, and although it was later than intended, it was very satisfying.

If you want it bad enough I'm sure you can achieve your goals.

Good luck!

 

 

[Sherri]

Pushing forty and have a newborn. I am still the youngest of my main partners (which can lull a sucker into thinking he is fit) and feel like I am slipping toward"old pussy" status as I type.

What I do have though is a pocket full of motivation, partly in the form of my daughter, to be healthier and also to make the limited time out really count.

 

I was pushing 40 when I STARTED to climb. So don't consider yourself getting "old"--think of it as having a head start.

 

You'll get to where you want to go. Just make sure to have fun along the way; after all, THAT is what makes the time really count.

[eric8]

Hey P,

 

I will just add a few comments, having mentored a few friends through this same hurdle. First of all the fact that you could not do one route means nothing. Your trying to break through a 20 year plateau there is going to be a lot of failure a long the way. Learn from it. You can lose 10 lbs, hangboard, boulder in the gym, do every thing right but your still going to fail while out on real rock trying to learn the technique to climb at a higher grade. Those things will just shorten the learning curve. IMO, breaking into 5.10 is all about volume. When I was trying to break into this grade I was trying to 10 pitches in 5.9-5.10 range in a day. This was obviously something I had to work up to.

 

Its probably going to take a couple years before you can do any 5.10 anywhere. I believe it was in Alpinist where Topher Donahue that said

"real 5.10 trad will always be hard"

 

So embrace the process if climbing was easy you would do something else fun for instead right?

[Off_White]

I believe it was in Alpinist where Topher Donahue that said

"real 5.10 trad will always be hard"

 

Amen to that! I'm just back from a week in the Valley, wearing my "In Tow" tee shirt and following my buddy up a raft of 5.10 crack climbs in the lower Merced Canyon, and that stuff is hard. For me anyway...

 

[Hokus]

A few thoughts...

 

Erie was where I grew up climbing... the trad there is less than ideal... usually insipient cracks that are there for a while, then not. A lot more mental there not knowing when you'll get pro or whatever.

 

Vantage is a different story. Basalt lines that are continuous and usually have pro the whole way, and that you can see easily... there's just a lot less guessing involved.

 

I think that the rock at Erie is on the irregular side. I love it, but it isn't the most straight-forward climbing out there.

 

Keep pushing yourself, and when you get some good lines that are great pro and nice, continuous crack systems that are better to protect, push your limit. Heck, if you go back to Vantage where you punched through those 10a's, do yourself a favor and hit some solid 10s and 10+ stuff.

[Vernman23]

I feel as though Erie might be rated a little harder. I was out climbing that same 10 a few weeks ago and its the top move thats the hardest (at least for me) once you figure out the move up top it gets easy and next thing you know your at the anchors.

The main issue is the different types of rock I believe. Gritstone at exit 38 has some short 10s on it that are just a few bolts, easy to TR if you want or need to retrieve gear. People on here gave some awesome advice for me pushing into the 10s has been losing the few extra pounds and just climbing all the time. Good luck and hope that things continue to go well!