Who's for the climbers? Bush v. Gore

[admin]

In light of tonights third presidential update, I wanted to post a question to the board: Who's the best candidate for the climbers?

I'm not sure if i'm opening a thread on a touchy subject, but I would be very interested to see everyone's views on how Gore/Bush's policies might have an affect on NW outdoor issues including: fees, bolting, and funding.

Let me know what y'all think, I'm on the fence on this one!

[Alex]

Its really quite simple. Gore is pro-environment, Bush is pro-business concerns. There isnt much of a surprise there.

Neither candidates policies will directly affect climbing.....

...unless you plan to climb in the Brooks Range.

Alex

[jon]

I think there has been a good point raised, though thinking more broadly the future and policies of outdoor recreation will take a larger brunt of the impact then just the climbing community. Obviously one person here has a very strong view of the presidential race, not to say I disagree, but there are things at stake here. I also think the presidential race is not the only one to be concerned with. In Washington State we have an important decision between Cantwell and Gordon for Congress. They will be the one protecting (or not) our forests and public lands. I'd be interested in hearing what people know about each of these people in concerns to public land issues like acceptable forms of outdoor recreation in national parks, logging policies, views on the wilderness bolting issue that is before some appointed committee, user fees, etc. It would be nice to keep who your voting for out of the discussion, and keep things more along the lines of known facts, like voting records, interviews and such.

[snowleopard_x]

This may surprise a few people, but Al Gore actually climbed Mt. Rainier last year. He and his son (and 2 Secret Service guys) were guided up by Jim Frush via the DC.

As far as policies go, Gore is actually pro-business as well, and his record is spotty on the environment, but his convictions and intent do seem strong.

Bush is pretty much on record saying he'd do everything to open up ANWR to oil drilling, and his general statements lead to believe he feels more logging is better for the world. Pretty disappointing as his father was actually somewhat green.

How policies will affect bolting, access, etc. is as Jon noted, more likely to be determined on a local level, then perhaps pushed to the Congress, or maybe influence the Pres just a little tiny bit.

[This message has been edited by snowleopard (edited 10-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by snowleopard (edited 10-19-2000).]

[LhotseDreems]

Surprisingly enough there are other candidates out there. They don't get any press, and were not invited to the debates, which is angering. I also know that the Green Party has no chance of winning (as currently the stats show he's only at around 11% of the votes! Yuck!).. but, at least when the election is done, and everyone is saying Bush/Gore sucks i can say i had nothin' to do with it!

And i'm about to say some bold statments - i'll take what heat i get. I'm an insomniac and am unable to mince words at the moment...(ack!)

I think Gore is an idiot (have you heard some of his quotes?!.. not to mention his affinity for heavy breathing.).. but i also feel that he's more likely to take into consideration things like drilling in Alaska isn't the neccisarily the right thing.

Bush - he's a stronger leader, but he doesn't answer things straight. He's very good at dodging questions when it suits him. Such as on the abortion topic. YES or NO!.. those are the options. As far as his drilling in Alaska plan - i think that shows his overall opinion on nature, it's just a means to an end.

 

[Alex]

"Bush - hes a stronger leader.."

Lhoste with the cool name, I have never met you but that makes me cringe. Bush has no record of leadership, how can you make such an unprovable statement?

Bush has shown time and again in public that he lacks the experience to make the kinds of decisions a president will make - this did not stop Reagan, either, and if you tell me that all Bush needs to do is surround himself with very smart and experienced people, I would agree with you that he could hold office. (But anyone could, with that argument.) Thats why he picked Cheney. But individual intelligence and more importantly, individual experience counts big with me.

Bush has none. Gore has 20+ years. Regarless of the issues, if anyone has a provable record of strong leadership skills, its Gore.

Don't forget to vote!

Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited 10-20-2000).]

[LhotseDreems]

Hey Alex,

Yeah - I stole her moniker, but i can see you don't blame me ) It is cool, isn't it?

Well, you raise a good point - I didn't do all of my homework when i said that Bush would be a stronger leader. I went off of just what i saw in the debates.

Sorry, i didn't mean to make you cringe - wanna know what makes me cringe? The thought of one of them in the White House. My views are not represented well by either one of them, so i'm feeling a bit helpless with this whole thing. Hope you are having better luck!

[snowleopard_x]

Some points to clarify.

I'd be shocked if Nader got 11% of the vote. Not that I would mind. It's great to see someone with fresh (and I think good) ideas out there. But if he can get 7% of the vote, that creates a lot of matching funds for the next election, and would help pressure the debate commission to more seriously consider allowing the Green Party candidate in at least one debate next election. It would also give steam to the Green Party as a whole in other elections. Something sorely needed in this plutocratic 2-party system we currently have.

I wouldn't call Gore an "idiot". One could say he's said some idiotic things, is overdramatic, or that you don't believe some of the things he says. But his command of complex issues across the board show he's certainly not an idiot.

Bush is on record as being pro-life, and has never wavered from that stance. How far he pushes the issue as president remains to be seen.

[LhotseDreems]

Hey Snow -

I agree with the green party statments, wouldn't it be great to see them do well.. or even get some recognition. And, the last poll i checked was putting the Green at 11% - and like anything else currently out there it may or may not be accurate.

I think Snow you were trying to clarify my thoughts - and i disagree with what you are trying to say about them.

I do feel that Gore is somewhat of an idiot - you may not agree, that's fine. I think he can be childish and sometimes say silly things. Being informed on issues doesn't make someone right.

Bush - The very first debate had him stuttering about trying hard to avoid stating certain issues on the Abortion topic. The mediator kept pushing him.. Bush managed to talk in circles without stating a clear answer on it.

I got that from watching Gore as Vice-President.. and watching them both on the debates. God knows i'm NOT claiming to be a Political Analyst - but, i've got opinions formed on those things i'm concerned about, as it should be.

[This message has been edited by Lhotse (edited 10-21-2000).]

[snowleopard_x]

id'i'ot - n. 1. A person hopelessly deficient in the ordinary mental powers; one lacking the capacity to develop beyond the mental age of three or four years. 2. An utterly foolish or senseless person; one lacking intellectual depth.

Random House College Dictionary (1997)

{I'll look up "jerk" in a moment for you }

[LhotseDreems]

#2 seems to sum it up for me!

However at this point i'm getting way too mean, and personal. This isn't about putting down a candidate - it's about talking about issues, i appologize if i've gotten off topic with this.

For the record: My opinions of the issues that matter to me are not represented well by either VP. Gore or Gov. Bush - and therefore intend upon voting for Mr. Nader.

(thought i'd get official since i was going on record)

Snow, however - keep that dictionary handy, i have a few choice words for you, my friend!

[snowleopard_x]

Actually, the "jerk" reference was to myself. Guessing for perhaps your feelings to my post.

Know what you mean by neither candidate representing you. I've felt this way for several elections in a row.

[geordie]

I'd just like to remind everyone who the governor of Texas has been these past few years during the Hueco Tanks debacle. Despite good faith efforts by the climbing community, the state of Texas has not been willing to come to the table with a workable solution.

[eggplant]

wow it was fun to read this after the last 8 years..

 

 

[Weekend_Climberz]

Wow, a serious thread with no spray. Guess Dru wasn't around back then

[Raindawg]

 

Never underestimate the power of klimbers to organize and produce change, even presidential elections!

[billcoe]

wow it was fun to read this after the last 8 years..

 

 

Best thread revival of the year Eggplant.

 

BTW, a quick perusal of their names should have sorted this qestion out.

 

Gore is something bad that happens when you take a bad fall.

 

Bush is not suitable for rapping on, only peeing on:

 

Thus - I can speak with assurance, they would both suck.