Healthcare truth

[glassgowkiss]

I just wanted to see why republifucks say we have the best healthcare in the world? what kind of statistics do they use? Infant mortality (we are 29th), average life span?- no we are not #1? What we are #1 in is type 2 diabetes, heart disease. We also have the most uninsured number of people among all the industrial countries, along with the most expansive system per capita. So can anybody explain- besides spew from FW and KKK? I mean facts.

Besides- if it's so great, and Canada is so bad- why are the buss loads of people going to Canada to purchase medications?

not #1 in economy either

Edited September 9, 2009 by glassgowkiss

[TarHeelEMT]

I suppose the argument would focus around the fact that we develop a hugely disproportionate share of medical advances and therapies. Our medical training also is considered to be the best in the world, and likewise our doctors.

 

If you are unconcerned with health care distribution and consider only the quality of treatment available once you get to it, then the US is pretty solidly at the top.

 

It all comes down to differing opinions on what constitutes good health care.

[glassgowkiss]

I suppose the argument would focus around the fact that we develop a hugely disproportionate share of medical advances and therapies. Our medical training also is considered to be the best in the world, and likewise our doctors.

I think it's more correct to say there is more drugs developed in the US then any other place. But as far as quality of physicians- I bet you different. Again- what is that opinion based upon? Because most definitely not on medical outcomes.

 

If you are unconcerned with health care distribution and consider only the quality of treatment available once you get to it, then the US is pretty solidly at the top.

No it's not. Again- if it was statistics of infant mortality, average life span or percentage of people on medications would point out US as #1, but we are not. So it is again a baseless opinion.

 

 

[t_rutl]

No it's not. Again- if it was statistics of infant mortality, average life span or percentage of people on medications would point out US as #1, but we are not. So it is again a baseless opinion.

 

i dont think that has much to do with the healthcare of a nation but rather the overall health of a nation

[t_rutl]

Besides- if it's so great, and Canada is so bad- why are the buss loads of people going to Canada to purchase medications?

 

1-800-PETMEDS vs. your vet

 

edit: same stuff, diff source...the non-medicated members of Canada are paying the difference

Edited September 9, 2009 by t_rutl

[TarHeelEMT]

For the first - American training for physicians is widely considered to be some of the best in the world, and those who can afford to receive comprehensive care from American physicians benefit. Here you are attempting to evaluate physician quality by public health outcomes, which is incorrect, as physician quality plays only a minor role when talking about infant mortality, average life span, people with chronic diseases, etc.. Those are measures of access to health care, health care education, nutrition, etc., at which our performance is woeful.

 

For the second - Again, you're using public health measures to evaluate quality of care. That's all well and good, but those are not the measures with which Republicans typically would concern themselves when evaluating quality of care available. You were asking how they could possibly think our health care is the best, and I told you. If you have full access to it, it is the best, and that's the measure they're using to make their determination. Public health measures are of only secondary importance to this point of view.

 

They're saying it's the best if you have access to it.

You're saying it's not good unless everyone has access to it.

 

It's a value judgment, not something you can argue by throwing public health statistics at them.

[t_rutl]

and if our gov't (dem or repub) had any sense of fiscal responsibility (and curbing frivolous lawsuits to lower insurance prems) we could afford to cover more healthcare costs for those in need as well as pay our teachers a descent wage without burdening taxpayers at a higher level

[TarHeelEMT]

and if our gov't (dem or repub) had any sense of fiscal responsibility (and curbing frivolous lawsuits to lower insurance prems) we could afford to cover more healthcare costs for those in need as well as pay our teachers a descent wage without burdening taxpayers at a higher level

 

Yes, but sensible policies are so 1950s. Get with the times, man!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

For the first - American training for physicians is widely considered to be some of the best in the world, and those who can afford to receive comprehensive care from American physicians benefit. Here you are attempting to evaluate physician quality by public health outcomes, which is incorrect, as physician quality plays only a minor role when talking about infant mortality, average life span, people with chronic diseases, etc.. Those are measures of access to health care, health care education, nutrition, etc., at which our performance is woeful.

 

For the second - Again, you're using public health measures to evaluate quality of care. That's all well and good, but those are not the measures with which Republicans typically would concern themselves when evaluating quality of care available. You were asking how they could possibly think our health care is the best, and I told you. If you have full access to it, it is the best, and that's the measure they're using to make their determination. Public health measures are of only secondary importance to this point of view.

 

They're saying it's the best if you have access to it.

You're saying it's not good unless everyone has access to it.

 

It's a value judgment, not something you can argue by throwing public health statistics at them.

 

Americans are some of the most unhealthy people in the developed world. Look at our rates of obesity. This has absolutely nothing to do with our woeful position on health care, I suppose.

[tomtom]

Americans are some of the most unhealthy people in the developed world. Look at our rates of obesity. This has absolutely nothing to do with our woeful position on health care, I suppose.

 

Canadians feel their health care is improving but their obesity rate is increasing as well.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/06/09/f-wellness-index-romanow-standard-living.html

 

# A strong 87 per cent of Canadians in 2007 said the quality of their health care was excellent or good, up from 84 per cent in 2000.

# The number of obese Canadians in 2007 was 16 per cent, up from 12.7 per cent in 1994. Diabetes rates have nearly doubled over the past decade.

 

[TarHeelEMT]

 

Americans are some of the most unhealthy people in the developed world. Look at our rates of obesity. This has absolutely nothing to do with our woeful position on health care, I suppose.

 

I suppose that would depend on whether or not you include public health programs, health and physical education, and others under the umbrella of what you consider health care.

[t_rutl]

Canadians feel their health care is improving but their obesity rate is increasing as well.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/06/09/f-wellness-index-romanow-standard-living.html

 

well they dont call it Canaduh for nothing...

 

kidding

 

i dont think anybody is saying Canada's healthcare sucks...if i were sick there or needed medical attention i'd feel confident i'd be treated just fine for anything routine...i think i'd be more selective with a specialist but hopefully anybody would

 

america's obesity rate is close to 25%

 

american's bitch because something aint free.

the same american's will bitch when its free but they pay with it in taxes.

 

the answer isnt raising taxes and socializing healthcare...look at public schools vs. private schools

 

first the gov't needs to be fiscally responsible and trim the ridiculous amount of fat and two, the lawyers jacking up all these muliti-million dollar frivolous lawsuits need to be put out to pasture and three, the american people need to be healthier (both physically and mentally)...when those three are in place insurance prems will be manageable, not as many people will need medical attention and the govt will have surplus to cover costs while a "private sector mentality" will continue to drive quality and medical advancements

 

but there's a snowball's chance in hell of that really ever happening because things are so fucked up so lets just give the gov't control, pay out the ass for it and watch the quality decline...in the end it will never end up looking like Canada's system because the foundation was built differently and its too large (300+ mil people vs. 30+ mil) to tear down and start from the ground up...and yes...there is too much money involved that is not necessarily a bad thing

 

edit: also give businesses tax incentives for covering insurance prems for employees

 

Edited September 9, 2009 by t_rutl

[t_rutl]

gad you can really get sucked into this cant you?

 

good luck with your debate boyz! it's been fun but i gotta stay out for time's sake

 

peace!

[Pete_H]

I don't want to have to pay $600 / month for health insurance when I'm retired. I'd rather spend my money on fine wine and skis.

[olyclimber]

Is your name Pete_Hypocrite? BECAUSE YOU ARE A FACIST COMMUNIST LIBERAL. and be careful if you drink and ski. its dangerous.

[Pete_H]

That's, like, your opinion, man.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I don't want to have to pay $600 / month for health insurance when I'm retired. I'd rather spend my money on fine wine and skis.

 

that's good, because under Obamacare, you'll pay $800 / month

[Pete_H]

Whatever, libtard.

[tvashtarkatena]

 

Americans are some of the most unhealthy people in the developed world. Look at our rates of obesity. This has absolutely nothing to do with our woeful position on health care, I suppose.

 

An oft repeated myth, designed to play the blame game on the patients rather than our fucked up and cruel system, but it's actually not true. It's also the kind of gross oversimplification one comes to expect from our dear mascot. Healthy...how? Cancers? What kind? Heart ailments? What kind? Other disease? Fitness? What kind?

 

 

[glassgowkiss]

I don't want to have to pay $600 / month for health insurance when I'm retired. I'd rather spend my money on fine wine and skis.

 

that's good, because under Obamacare, you'll pay $800 / month

I think you are mistaking health care proposals with how much your mom charges.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I think you are mistaking health care proposals with how much your mom my fat whore of a wife charges.

 

fixed that for ya

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

Americans are some of the most unhealthy people in the developed world. Look at our rates of obesity. This has absolutely nothing to do with our woeful position on health care, I suppose.

 

An oft repeated myth, designed to play the blame game on the patients rather than our fucked up and cruel system, but it's actually not true. It's also the kind of gross oversimplification one comes to expect from our dear mascot. Healthy...how? Cancers? What kind? Heart ailments? What kind? Other disease? Fitness? What kind?

 

 

Use google, you fucktard. It's not too hard.

 

One of the first hits:

 

linky

[Pete_H]

"They found strong evidence that Americans have much higher levels of lifestyle-related chronic disease than do Europeans - in other words, we're sicker - that American medicine tends to identify and treat disease more aggressively than does European medicine, and that our more excessive lifestyles and aggressive treatment patterns undoubtedly contribute significantly to our much higher per capita health care spending, which can be twice what Europeans pay."

 

Nice like. This exert from the article cuts against an argument in favor of a U.S. - type for-profit health care insurance system.

[Pete_H]

"Americans pay so much more for our health care than Europeans because we take such poor care of ourselves. And once we get disease, we may not manage the care processes as well as Europeans do ...

 

America's health care crisis has two enormous wings. On one side, a fee-for-service reimbursement system and a lack of transparency cultivate an opportunistic culture that generates excessive care and cost throughout the health care supply chain, the care delivery system and the financing sector. On the other, a food industry preys on our children without regard for the consequences to them or the welfare of the nation."

 

Right on for the unfettered free market!

[glassgowkiss]

I think you are mistaking health care proposals with how much your mom my fat whore of a wife charges.

 

fixed that for ya

my wife can bench more then your fat lazy boy ass weights. I would watch it, as you might be called on it (she is reading this bb from time to time)- just a fair warning