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Sport vs Trad


Raindawg
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i've never had a bolt break, and indeed my sporto 180 lb ass has fallen on lotso lotso bolts.

 

lard ass indeed

 

very scary. so, check your hangers.

 

thanks Mom!!

 

yeah i know. that's why i'm waiting for rumr to email me skinny prescriptions.

 

btw, why you concerned about hangers? i thought you were into power hiking?

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Your comments involving bolts are nothing more than cheap, irrelevant personal attacks suggesting that you resent other climbing perspectives and other climbers as as a persons, and indicate that you have little of substance to offer.

 

 

Now run along li'l bully!

 

lil_dawg_small1.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Peter_Puget
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john's done some work to forestall bolting at beacon - saw yer fixed green alien while climbing blownout today dood, it's still in great shape, and hella better than that rusted bullshit on the second pitch! :)

 

dude, you clipped an alien? you must not have hang-dogged on it, or you'd be another statistic for JH to harp about! ;-)

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Good point...and if people weighting trad gear is a drag, then you best not ever watch anyone climb El Cap.

 

Only a good point if you're missing the point - read my response to that post of Rob's above.

 

Seriously, to invoke "ethics" with respect to dogging is not only childish but totally egotistical. When I think ethics, I think of issues like environmental degradation, murder, theft, etc. Someone rehearsing moves may offend your sensibilities, but unethical? Gimme a break. This is recreation.

 

Oh, I'm quite willing to admit ethics have all but evaporated from 'climbing' these days - along with risk beyond stupidity and chance.

 

Personally I would argue that dogging is if anything safer than committing to falling every time as long as that person knows how to set pro- and if you don't, then you have no business leading at your limit anyway.

 

I have no doubt you'd argue that position. But aside from dangerous aspect of dogging and the issue of the ancient notion of ethics, the other reason it's just flat out a behavioral bad idea is if you actually do develop some skills and balls, you'll sooner or later find yourself runout with no possible option of placing pro to dog, and after conditioning yourself with dogging you're way more likely to meltdown than gut it through.

 

No one sets out to dog a route, really...

 

Really! Damn, I clearly don't know what I've been watching because I've seen folks who dog from the moment they can get a first piece in. I'm sure they must have stepped up to those lines thinking they had a good shot at sending them - yeah, that's it, why sure. Lot's of sport crossovers apply the exact same dog-and-work-each-move mentality and tactics when they are climbing on gear.

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dude, you clipped an alien? ;-)

naw, as it's 2 feet above and below fixed pins i mostly just look at it and smile, but when the pins fall out i'll be set! :)

 

and anyhow, joe's intimately familiar w/ the hilarity that is my rawk-star-style (christ, i actually had to use a sling for a stirrup at the top of blownout today - all this aid climbing has made me Da Suck!)

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The problem with the entire” trad” v Sport thing is that the words are (intentionally) not defined. For the most part a divide is created that serves a hidden agenda. “Trad free climbing ” originally meant to start at the bottom work your way up placing gear (including bolts) and lowering when you fell. No preinspection, no rap placed gear. Some of the major proponents of” trad” ethic often used bolts – Tom Higgens. Usually bolts were kept to a minimum but that was always a grey area and not a defining characteristic of the” trad” ethic. “Trad” existed before the era of “clean” climbing. Most people on cc.com twist” trad” out of its historical meaning. I climb with a bunch of people who when they climb “sport” routes if they fall they lower and pull rope because they are tradsters but are they sporters too? Fuck definitions those who use them in debates like this are usually up to no good. Most often their desire is to either elevate their own reputation or to denigrate someone elses.

So now you are having the bolting discussion that you criticized me for trying to have.

Aren't you ashamed of yourselves for entering this horrible wasteland?

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You previously posted that you were going to work on an excavation in the Valley of the Kings. I can't think of a worse example of raping the rock than the Egyptians carving out that monstrosity all in human vanity. Now that the earth has retaken that soil, you are eager to uncover the blemish. In the mean time you harp on with your anti-bolt crusade while you adore the Egyptians. The hypocrisy is laughable. If the connection is not clear, than your mental process is as addled as JH's, Kevbone's, or Kimmo's.

 

No, the connection between my archaeological project in the Valley of the Kings and the behavior of modern climbers is both unclear and ridiculous.

ONCE AGAIN, YOU ARE ONLY SHOWING YOUR PROFOUND IGNORANCE.

 

Is the Valley of the Kings a "monstrosity" of "human vanity"? I suggest that you know very, very little if anything about Egyptology and modern archaeology.

YOU ARE IGNORANT.

 

Do I "adore" the Egyptians? Do you know my opinion on the subject one way or another?

No, you don't. Again...YOU ARE IGNORANT.

 

Is this a hypocrisy debate?

No, it isn't. If you have something of substance to say, try addressing the issue [sport vs. trad] rather than attacking the messenger of the perspective you resent and foolishly displaying your lack of knowledge in so many ways.

 

Tell us what you do for a living so it can be irrelevantly forced into an "discussion" about climbing ethics, or so that your personal profession can be absurdly twisted to form an accusatory smokescreen of hypocrisy.

Or you can add your name to the growing list of people who invoke my personal profession to attack me on a climbing web-site, yet are too embarrassed to reveal their own.

 

Here....put this hat on:

 

ignorant_and_prowed_of_it_hat-p148595464133123930qz14_400.jpg

 

 

 

 

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The problem with the entire” trad” v Sport thing is that the words are (intentionally) not defined. For the most part a divide is created that serves a hidden agenda. “Trad free climbing ” originally meant to start at the bottom work your way up placing gear (including bolts) and lowering when you fell. No preinspection, no rap placed gear. Some of the major proponents of” trad” ethic often used bolts – Tom Higgens. Usually bolts were kept to a minimum but that was always a grey area and not a defining characteristic of the” trad” ethic. “Trad” existed before the era of “clean” climbing. Most people on cc.com twist” trad” out of its historical meaning. I climb with a bunch of people who when they climb “sport” routes if they fall they lower and pull rope because they are tradsters but are they sporters too? Fuck definitions those who use them in debates like this are usually up to no good. Most often their desire is to either elevate their own reputation or to denigrate someone elses.

So now you are having the bolting discussion that you criticized me for trying to have.

Aren't you ashamed of yourselves for entering this horrible wasteland?

 

 

Just helping to clarify a definition and suggest while otherwise smart guys and gals would want to subtly or perhaps not so subtly change them.

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Is the Valley of the Kings a "monstrosity" of "human vanity"? I suggest that you know very, very little if anything about Egyptology and modern archaeology.

YOU ARE IGNORANT.

 

Constructing elaborate tombs for self-professed "Gods" to guarantee passage into an afterlife is indeed nothing more than human vanity at its worst.

 

 

 

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Is the Valley of the Kings a "monstrosity" of "human vanity"? I suggest that you know very, very little if anything about Egyptology and modern archaeology.

YOU ARE IGNORANT.

 

Constructing elaborate tombs for self-professed "Gods" to guarantee passage into an afterlife is indeed nothing more than human vanity at its worst.

 

Got anything you want to say about sport vs. trad climbing?

 

Put it on, dude....put it on!

ignorant_and_prowed_of_it_hat-p148595464133123930qz14_400.jpg

 

 

 

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Who is John?
uh, john-boy frieh - he was dabbling in the spray-fuck today, quite unlike a wise-man of his stripe, so figured he need some intreweb-lov'n :grin:

 

 

Ivan -

 

There is plenty of room at Beacon for some awesome sport routes. Fight the power man! Burn the museum! Turn Beacon into a real live community. Tell JosephH Opdyke BillCoe Wynton Marsalis to bugger off! Be Miles Davis!

 

 

31061.jpg

Edited by Peter_Puget
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Is the Valley of the Kings a "monstrosity" of "human vanity"? I suggest that you know very, very little if anything about Egyptology and modern archaeology.

YOU ARE IGNORANT.

 

Constructing elaborate tombs for self-professed "Gods" to guarantee passage into an afterlife is indeed nothing more than human vanity at its worst.

 

 

not that often that i agree w/ kkk, but i do see the humor he's getting at - being rabidly anti-rock desecration while devoting your life to the study of an ancient people who are the most well remembered by the general public for their giant works of machined stone IS ironic - it don't mean you're an asshole though (r even wrong), dig?

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