Kimmo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Have you thought about going into politics? Also: should I change my username to Basterson? It has a certain ring to it... i am in politics. everyone is. and yes, basterson is much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Why do people have jobs? Ugh...) i heard it once said.... any fool can get a job; it takes a smart man to live without one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 What is with you and the aluminum? I can think of a handful of things with a much greater cytotoxicity then aluminum that you ingest every day. and since you can do that, iv administered aluminum is ok? that's some powerful reasonin' there, brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 alas...you have still avoided answering about your own reluctance to accept the scientific method. i'm bored now. y ou win i'm bored too. but to answer your question: i have never rejected the SM outright; that's just silly. my acceptance of it is simply conditional. it doesn't have the capacity to reach beyond itself, so to speak. i'm not saying it's inherently flawed, like nietzsche perhaps did, just that it's limited to time and place; specifically, rhyme and space. if you don't immunize your kids, you are a moron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 further the discontinuation of mecury as a preservative (thimerosal) has made delivery of basic vaccines to developing countries far less cost effective when the preserved version of the vaccine is unavailable or no longer manufactured. the risk of mecury toxicity from the amount of mecury in these vaccines is nearly nothing. thimerosal content in vaccines used today: mercury and my understanding is that more thimerosal containing vaccines are used in developing countries. by the way, i'm not necessarily condemning this, just trying to get the facts straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 if you don't immunize your kids, you are a moron proof that you can vaccinate your kids, and still be a moron. Yayyyyyy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 if you don't immunize your kids, you are a moron proof that you can vaccinate your kids, and still be a moron. Yayyyyyy! You are proof that you can attempt to cite Nietzsche and still come off dumber than Kevbone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 dumber and moron then. very catchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Kimmo, since you're so concerned about mercury, I'm assuming you won't be feeding tuna to your child, ever? Or, possibly, even ANY fish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 kimmo will be keeping her child in a bubble so that it never faces even the remotest possibility of physical harm. psychological...well living in a bubble will do that to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Kimmo, since you're so concerned about mercury, I'm assuming you won't be feeding tuna to your child, ever? Or, possibly, even ANY fish? jeez, there are fish that excede EPA safety levels in a single serving. shark and swordfish i think? some tuna is up there too, so indeed there will be little consumed at this household. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 kimmo will be keeping her child in a bubble so that it never faces even the remotest possibility of physical harm. psychological...well living in a bubble will do that to you. no, i'm going to take the opposite tack and ignore all potential harm, cuz it's all overblown hype anyway. sheesh, alarmists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Smith Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I think one variable to this conversation most of you are not talking about is that you can treat any of these sicknesses that you or your children can get. So, you don’t necessarily have to pump your children full of vaccines solely because your western medicine doctor tells you so. The idea of prevention is not the only way to live. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosterson Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I think one variable to this conversation most of you are not talking about is that you can treat any of these sicknesses that you or your children can get. So, you don’t necessarily have to pump your children full of vaccines solely because your western medicine doctor tells you so. The idea of prevention is not the only way to live. Just a thought. 1) "Western medicine doctor" - does this imply some sort of schism where two competing sets of ideas are at war? Cause I don't think that's how it is... And if alternative medicine actually worked, it wouldn't be "alternative" anymore; it'd be "medicine." 2) Inasmuch as this concerns herd immunity and the general welfare of the group, what you're talking about would not be a good idea because lowering the total immunity makes it easier for diseases to spread. So yes, some kids would get sick and some of them would be cured, but more kids would get sick overall, and kids do not have the strongest immune systems, meaning that more kids (not to mention the elderly and people who are immunocompromised - ie, people with AIDS) would die. 3) I would love to see if the data backs this up, but wouldn't you think that immunization is cheaper in the long run than treatment? I mean, especially if we take into account lost productivity, long term disability, decreases in quality of life, etc. etc. This isn't some argument for the pharmacology business, but it just seems like it'd be cheaper to prevent a disease than to try to keep it in check once it's loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I think one variable to this conversation most of you are not talking about is that you can treat any of these sicknesses that you or your children can get. So, you don’t necessarily have to pump your children full of vaccines solely because your western medicine doctor tells you so. The idea of prevention is not the only way to live. Just a thought. Yeah, treatment of Whooping Cough went over real well before a vaccine was available. Dumbasses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 All this vaccination talk. Think about your precious bodily fluids [video:youtube]N1KvgtEnABY&feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Smith Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I think one variable to this conversation most of you are not talking about is that you can treat any of these sicknesses that you or your children can get. So, you don’t necessarily have to pump your children full of vaccines solely because your western medicine doctor tells you so. The idea of prevention is not the only way to live. Just a thought. Yeah, treatment of Whooping Cough went over real well before a vaccine was available. Dumbasses. You have brought up a good point. If only we were discussing vaccinations from years ago it would be valid. My comments were directed at today’s treatment. Not whooping cough treatment before vaccinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosterson Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Yeah, treatment of Whooping Cough went over real well before a vaccine was available. Dumbasses. You have brought up a good point. If only we were discussing vaccinations from years ago it would be valid. My comments were directed at today’s treatment. Not whooping cough treatment before vaccinations. Still waiting on your response to what I wrote earlier. Whooping cough is not a problem because vaccination prevented it from propagating. If you decide to treat instead of vaccinate, you would then be allowing whatever new disease we're talking about to spread unnecessarily. (Or does non-western medicine have magic beans for that?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Smith Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Sorry. Not sure on how to respond to your earlier comments. Vaccinations are a choice, and like any choice I hope the one who decides looks at all sides of the equation and makes the best choice for themselves and their family. I do believe that the major contributing factor behind vaccinations to be money based. Not the only factor, but one that drives the lobbyist to Washington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosterson Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Not sure on how to respond to your earlier comments. Hmm... let me see if I can simplify my questions: 1) a) Re: "western medicine doctors" - is there something alternative medicine says we should do that has the same effects as vaccination? b) Also, despite the mainstream medical industry's obvious problems and corruption, is the "alternative medicine" industry, which is completely unregulated (ie, there is rat poop in your Chinese medicine pills) and scientifically unproven, somehow better? 2) If we choose to only treat diseases as they occur, rather than vaccinate, do you think there is a risk that the herd immunity would fall below its threshold, therefore allowing such diseases to spread rampantly, overburdening the medical system (and most likely costing the lives of the young and elderly who have weak immune systems)? 3) Do you think, from an economic standpoint, choosing to treat rather than vaccinate is a more efficient usage of our healthcare money? In other words, is vaccinating upwards of 80% of population P more expensive than treating the actual disease in a much smaller proportion of P, say 20-30%? In the spirit of asking unasked questions and looking at all sides of the issue, these are the questions I have based on what you've said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I think one variable to this conversation most of you are not talking about is that you can treat any of these sicknesses that you or your children can get. So, you don’t necessarily have to pump your children full of vaccines solely because your western medicine doctor tells you so. The idea of prevention is not the only way to live. Just a thought. this is true for some of the illnesses that we vaccinate for, but certainly not all of them. you or your kid do not want to contract tetanus and polio for instance (ok polio you won't get unless you travel cuz it's eradicated in the US, but tetanus is pretty horrendous); you probably don't want pertussis, cuz it's a pain in the ass for everyone (sweden stopped vaccinating from what '78 to '96, and there were thousands and thousands of cases, but only one fatality per year); and then hib-caused meningitis is shitty etc etc. and yeah money is involved, but you can't discount all vaccinations because pharmaceuticals push hard for sales. don't throw the baby out with the bath-water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I like turtles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 they carry hep a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Smith Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Not sure on how to respond to your earlier comments. Hmm... let me see if I can simplify my questions: 1) a) Re: "western medicine doctors" - is there something alternative medicine says we should do that has the same effects as vaccination? b) Also, despite the mainstream medical industry's obvious problems and corruption, is the "alternative medicine" industry, which is completely unregulated (ie, there is rat poop in your Chinese medicine pills) and scientifically unproven, somehow better? 2) If we choose to only treat diseases as they occur, rather than vaccinate, do you think there is a risk that the herd immunity would fall below its threshold, therefore allowing such diseases to spread rampantly, overburdening the medical system (and most likely costing the lives of the young and elderly who have weak immune systems)? 3) Do you think, from an economic standpoint, choosing to treat rather than vaccinate is a more efficient usage of our healthcare money? In other words, is vaccinating upwards of 80% of population P more expensive than treating the actual disease in a much smaller proportion of P, say 20-30%? In the spirit of asking unasked questions and looking at all sides of the issue, these are the questions I have based on what you've said. I have seen all to often a “western medicine doctor” mask an injury or illness with prescription medication, where eastern medicine will take the approach of treating the illness with natural remedies over time. This, of course is an observation I have had over the years of dealing with doctors and naturopaths. I also know there is a place in time for both. To answer your first question. I don’t know. I am not a doctor. I do know that the Chinese have been practicing medicine long before America and its “greatness” was here. As far as better. That is a personal opinion. I would prefer to see a naturopath for what ever is my problem long before I would go see a western doctor. Most naturopaths concentrate on diet first and foremost. Western doctors have never asked me what I eat. And since diet is the key to a long and healthy life, well you get the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I am starting to be disappointed with Obama (of course every president is disappointing to a point). His expansion of government is a little scary. AIG, GM, Chrysler should all have failed with absolutely no government help. Oui. Bring on the phoenix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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