Doug Smith

This is a great trip report. Thank you for sharing!

I expect alot more, that is for sure.

Nice pictures. I have been looking forward to climbing this route.

Why is this thread directed at aid climbers and not all climbers?

I was standing on top of my parents house (with them) in Portland, OR watching it as it happened. I was 7 years old.

Nice.

Great pictures. Awesome trip report.

In 2007, Palin supported a 2003 Alaska Department of Fish and Game policy allowing the hunting of wolves from the air as part of a predator control program intended to increase moose and caribou populations for subsistence-food gatherers and other hunters.[103][104] In March 2007, Palin's office announced that a bounty of $150 per wolf would be paid to the 180 volunteer pilots and gunners, to offset fuel costs, in five areas of Alaska. Six-hundred-and-seven wolves had been killed in the prior four years. State biologists wanted 382 to 664 wolves killed by the end of the predator-control season in April 2007. Wildlife activists sued the state, and a state judge declared the bounty illegal on the basis that a bounty would have to be offered by the Board of Game and not by the Department of Fish and Game

I will have to agree!

You make a very good point.

29 years? That is impressive. Nice work. My wife and I will celebrate 16 years this summer.

Nice pictures.

Amazing pictures. Thanks for sharing them.

Amazing pictures.

I would say chiropractors would fall into the same category you just described.

People keep telling me that. Give us the cliffnotes. http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

In the hours following Jackson's death, his record sales increased dramatically. His album Thriller climbed to number one on the American iTunes music chart, while another eight have made it into the top 40.[175] In the UK, where Jackson would have performed in less than three weeks, his albums occupied 14 of the top 20 places on the Amazon.co.uk sales chart with Off The Wall topping the chart. In the UK iTunes store on June 26, thirty-nine of Jackson's songs were in the Top 100 best selling songs list, in addition to four Jackson 5 songs.[176] It has been reported that police are searching for Michael Jackson's personal doctor, currently missing, after the star's family suggested he died because of a drug overdose of Demerol, a synthetic form of morphine.

I don’t believe I was making the argument that Chinese medicine is better simply because it is older. Simply making an observation. I also pointed out that there is a time and place for both customs. I would not go see a naturopath for a punctured lung. As far as acupuncture goes. I am a firm believer in this process. I used to not believe, and then I witnessed acupuncture multiple times before my eyes. I watched it work on patients. I started to believe. I have found that eastern philosophy teaches mind over matter (believe what you will) and western medicine teaches Vicodin over pain.

Hmm... let me see if I can simplify my questions: 1) a) Re: "western medicine doctors" - is there something alternative medicine says we should do that has the same effects as vaccination? b) Also, despite the mainstream medical industry's obvious problems and corruption, is the "alternative medicine" industry, which is completely unregulated (ie, there is rat poop in your Chinese medicine pills) and scientifically unproven, somehow better? 2) If we choose to only treat diseases as they occur, rather than vaccinate, do you think there is a risk that the herd immunity would fall below its threshold, therefore allowing such diseases to spread rampantly, overburdening the medical system (and most likely costing the lives of the young and elderly who have weak immune systems)? 3) Do you think, from an economic standpoint, choosing to treat rather than vaccinate is a more efficient usage of our healthcare money? In other words, is vaccinating upwards of 80% of population P more expensive than treating the actual disease in a much smaller proportion of P, say 20-30%? In the spirit of asking unasked questions and looking at all sides of the issue, these are the questions I have based on what you've said. I have seen all to often a “western medicine doctor” mask an injury or illness with prescription medication, where eastern medicine will take the approach of treating the illness with natural remedies over time. This, of course is an observation I have had over the years of dealing with doctors and naturopaths. I also know there is a place in time for both. To answer your first question. I don’t know. I am not a doctor. I do know that the Chinese have been practicing medicine long before America and its “greatness” was here. As far as better. That is a personal opinion. I would prefer to see a naturopath for what ever is my problem long before I would go see a western doctor. Most naturopaths concentrate on diet first and foremost. Western doctors have never asked me what I eat. And since diet is the key to a long and healthy life, well you get the point.

Minx, I am just trying to keep a little perspective on the death of the most popular entertainer to ever walk the earth. I also will have to concur about his erratic behavior. I do not condone such actions, although on the other hand I have a hard time judging the man. I have never sold 750 millions albums and grossed more than a billion dollars. I don’t know what that kind of stress is like. I take it, nor do you. I hope his family will find peace in the up coming days, months and years.

This is probably the best thing for all kids. What do you mean by that statement? He was found to be not guilty in a court of law. Not that I don’t have my reservations about the man, but he is innocent until proven guilty lets not forget.

Sorry. Not sure on how to respond to your earlier comments. Vaccinations are a choice, and like any choice I hope the one who decides looks at all sides of the equation and makes the best choice for themselves and their family. I do believe that the major contributing factor behind vaccinations to be money based. Not the only factor, but one that drives the lobbyist to Washington.

RIP.

Yeah, treatment of Whooping Cough went over real well before a vaccine was available. Dumbasses. You have brought up a good point. If only we were discussing vaccinations from years ago it would be valid. My comments were directed at today’s treatment. Not whooping cough treatment before vaccinations.

I think one variable to this conversation most of you are not talking about is that you can treat any of these sicknesses that you or your children can get. So, you don’t necessarily have to pump your children full of vaccines solely because your western medicine doctor tells you so. The idea of prevention is not the only way to live. Just a thought.