ivan Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 i was just wondering, how in the hell has raindawg not weighed in on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 Y'all be bitchin' 'bout the best way to rape the vertical environment.[/size] How do you think King Tut feels when you rape his tomb? Just asking....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimper Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 on one hand, this thread provides a good lesson to any aspiring FA'er: the process/journey of putting up a route that requires cleaning or rap-bolting ought to be at least as important as the ego-satisfaction of ultimately getting the FA. if you only care about being the first to get the send, then having your line stolen like this would be a huge letdown. (i think this is kevbone's perspective, and i share it some extent) but if you feel less "ownership" of the route, and actually detach your ego and have a broader view of why you have rapped in X number of times and spent X hours hanging on a rope and cleaning, you could shrug it off somewhat, knowing that you already got back what you put into the route even if you don't get the FA. that said, i'd still be pissed, because it's hard to be that detached. but it just goes to show that in the real world nobody owns the rock, so you'd better not get too attached to any one vertical sliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 How do you think King Tut feels when you rape his tomb? Just asking....... Next thing you know the Ozone Peregrines will be shitting on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Y'all be bitchin' 'bout the best way to rape the vertical environment.[/size] How do you think King Tut feels when you rape his tomb? Just asking....... Is that all you can come up with? Try to pick a fight with the messenger? What does King Tut gotta do with climbers junkin' the rock other than tryin' to smoke-screen the issue. This be Cascade CLIMBERS.com....not King Tut in yo' face.com. Get a grip, dude....focus, now stick with the issue....we're talkin' rocks and what people do to them on a climbing web-site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 To me, setting route is like a piece of art work. It’s like painting a picture on a huge canvas. You get to choose what colors you want and where to put those colors. What size brushes you want to use…….you clean off the canvas so you can see it, then you start painting. If I was to clean a huge canvas and get is ready to start my art work, then to find out in the middle of the night that another rouge painter painted his own art work on this canvas I might be a little upset. I can only assume that Martins dad would have used different colors (bolts) in different areas. In other words he might have bolted in completely different. Not that his way was better or worse…..just different. Now he will never get that chance unless he decides to chop this route….which is not in his nature, but is should be. Like I said…..I am not in favor of any chopping usually….but if there ever was an instance……this would be it. I would love to have the bolting party weigh in to explain yourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I'd say more like when another kid fills in the Hamburglar's pants with a color you don't like on your page of the Happy Meal Coloring Book while you were off getting more fries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 kev, would you want bolts chopped even if the new bolts were gonna go into the exact same spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 It’s about principal and respect. Respect those who came before you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 This debate is like arguing whether to break a window with a rock or with a baseball bat. Either way, you're wreckin' somethin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 What is really sad is that we are not suprised. And why should it get worse? That is about as bad as it gets, not sure what would be worse. just pointing out the obvious here...pdx has large outdoor enthusiast population... and up until(ozone) Portland didn't have an area that people could so quickly go from the gym to the crag. Kevin, I agree with the lack of respect and knowing who came before you etcetera etcetera etcetera, but don’t fool yourself this is a designer crag. In addition, you can't deny that the moderate grades, lack of approach, and ability to TR, among other things, make this the most logical place to take a gumby and for gym gumby's to start outside. I was there on a Friday and there were at least four groups of obvious first timers…and ozone’s popularity will only continue to grow. that said I would never condone fooling with someone route, its like fooling with your buddies girl, its just a no no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 just pointing out the obvious here...pdx has large outdoor enthusiast population... and up until(ozone) Portland didn't have an area that people could so quickly go from the gym to the crag. Kevin, I agree with the lack of respect and knowing who came before you etcetera etcetera etcetera, but don’t fool yourself this is a designer crag. In addition, you can't deny that the moderate grades, lack of approach, and ability to TR, among other things, make this the most logical place to take a gumby and for gym gumby's to start outside. I was there on a Friday and there were at least four groups of obvious first timers…and ozone’s popularity will only continue to grow. that said I would never condone fooling with someone route, its like fooling with your buddies girl, its just a no no. I don’t know what “designer crag” means…… I mostly agree with all your points B……but don’t see how any of it is relevant to Martins route getting pulled out from underneath him and his father. This route will go in the upper 10’s if not harder. No newbie will be getting on it, or would know how to set up a route like this. It is not obvious IMO. These bolters know what they were doing because they skipped the last couple of bolts and made it so you have to finish on route 66, knowing that is would be a total squeeze job if they added bolts to the top. Just because Ozone is popular doesn’t mean we as climbers get to step on each other. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimper Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 powderhound, why are you ragging on ozone so much? i guess i'm taking it personally because i spent a lot of time there when it was being developed, and we tried hard to please everyone, though we knew we never could. we left just 1, 2, 3 pieces of pro on routes because we didn't bolt cracks - pleasing the trad crowd, but bumming out the sportos. we tried to groundup routes when possible or even remotely safe but that was usually close to impossible, or at least insanely dangerous (would you risk dying for the FA of a mediocre 5-9?). we knew that bolting begets bolting, and that the crag would be developed further: and it now looks like - well, broughton, madrone, carver, and any other local crag besides beacon. so i don't get your point about ozone deserving to be raped: if a crag offers moderate terrain that beginners can actually climb, and if most of that terrain gets rap-bolted beause it was chossy and mossy, it no longer deserves to be treated via the same ethics that apply at other crags? when women dress nicely, they don't deserve to get raped. when a crag gets rap-bolted, ethics still apply. and if you don't like ozone, don't climb there. right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 As the ozone turns. To be continued........... Xoxo all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Bill I think it's a PDX thing.....a few years ago I mentioned that PDX seems to have more than its share of disputes & petty arguments. Elevating oneselve by smacking the other guy down seems the PDX way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 Stealing obvious new routes is not petty IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Oh, I'd be happy to stay off all Ozone threads if Kevin would chill on the bird bitching - just illustrating the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Kev -I think its lame too but in any event I was mostly refering to the online debate here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 i like ozone, some of those routes have some great movement on them, and the mixed routes are sweet. I really do appreciate all the hard work and thought that went into ozone...I am just not sure if the developers realized just how MANY people would use this great resource. I don't think trying pleasing everyone ever achieves much IMO ...but this crag does have lots of great attributes to offer the pdx climber. The evolution of this crag will be intersting to watch and dicuss Its to bad that they didn't finish straight up and instead bailed out left. The climbing straight up looked to be sweet when I came down the route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 i love how the pdx climbing commmunity gets pegged by cc.com bolting debates. nice. now someone divulge a frickin name already and maybe we can bring in jerry springer to moderate this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I'd say more like when another kid fills in the Hamburglar's pants with a color you don't like on your page of the Happy Meal Coloring Book while you were off getting more fries... joseph, i didn't know u were funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 i love how the pdx climbing commmunity gets pegged by cc.com bolting debates. nice. now someone divulge a frickin name already and maybe we can bring in jerry springer to moderate this thread. doppleganger's dilemma cocksmoker's delight tempest in a teapot the perfect crime paradise lost ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 "I am a bastard and cant clean or find my own piece of rock so I rape and plunder others piece of rock but only after they have done all the work"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Was there a red tag or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 "I am a bastard and cant clean or find my own piece of rock so I rape and plunder others piece of rock but only after they have done all the work"? i'm sorry, but all your answers must be in the form of a question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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