Backpacking tents: Freestanding or not.

[Bug]

no insurance

 

Oh....AND PLEASE DON'T ASK US TO RESCUE YOU ---effen y'all don't buy a very expensive tent.

 

I for one, have ten chil'en and three wives dat needs me sorely.....ah don' need'ta go dyin' on account y'all bought some tent dat wazn't 'zpensive 'nuff........

 

What's up with the moderators here?

Isn't the newbies section supposed to be spray free?

Or are we too cool to give the newbies a safe plae to ask questions now?

 

If so, CC.COM totally sucks as a climbing resource.

[JBo6]

Nuke it/him.

[genepires]

too bad there has to be one particular jack ass (from NJ) that is making this thread into a joke.

 

I prefer a free standing tent but that is because I haven't found a cheap good non free standing tent. I am sure that there is some good one from europe (I forget the name but it is really light and strong).

 

If you return your tent to rei, look at the black diamond single wall tents like the first light. You probably shouldn't be going out onto volcanoes with a bad weather forcast so a light weight single wall will do fine. And if the forcast is bad, the tent is good enough to withstand most of what will be dealt out. Guying out the tent is the most important thing regardless of how many seasons the tent is. Your rei tent will probably do fine if guyed out properly.

 

Don't let the yahoo comments give you a bad impression of this site. Get out, and let us know how things go. The tr's from people starting out are great.

[johndavidjr]

"If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?"

[genepires]

so what is your point? You think that just because people bash you for something you wrote months ago, that you can be a dick?

 

Why not just be mature and offer good advice to a new climber? Did Wesley Laws wrong you?

[johndavidjr]

My answer to your first question should be obvious.

 

As for your second point, I think the question of tent selection is much over-rated, partly due to societal corruption by "consumerism."

 

More generally, I'd stick with my point from some months ago, based on personal experience over several decades with many different kinds of tents in widely varied conditions, which is, that a Wal-mart pup tent for $19 is for most people most of the time, an entirely reasonable, much lighter and in general more effective alternative than a $XXX zillion mountaineering or even "backpacking" tent from Sweden (more likely China), at least as a solo rig.

 

I'd certainly accept many exceptions to this statement, based on common sense. If you doubt that common sense is common, maybe it's due to misunderstanding the definition.

 

Currently I use mainly several "tarptent" rigs in four seasons. I also own a NF "tadpole" design with full storm flaps, but I lost the poles a number of years ago. Some day, I may replace them.

[letsroll]

It was a good question. Newbies is spray free!!!!!!!!

 

Stop johndaviding this thread.

[catbirdseat]

Guying out the tent is the most important thing regardless of how many seasons the tent is. Your rei tent will probably do fine if guyed out properly.

This is a very important point. One of the things you should check on is the number of guy points your tent has. You don't need to bring a guy line for every attachment point but bring at least four and move them to the places they are needed most once the tent is pitched.

 

I remember a time I was camped at a lake and the wind clocked to the right by 90 degrees during a late afternoon. I kept having to relocate the guy ropes in a clockwise fashion.

[letsroll]

speaking about guying out tents. I extended the 4 primary stake points on my tent with parachute cord (will add about 6 inches to stake point). Then I can deadman the four corners of the tent as well as having the guy out points, I also deadman those.

 

THere is no way the tent is going anywhere. Might shred the tent but at least it will be there

[genepires]

the swedish tent maker I was referencing is hilleberg and they make their tents in Estonia, not china. (unless Estonia is a provence of china)

 

I don't think it is a trait of consumerism to want to buy one good tent. A trait of consumerism is to have many tents like a NF tent, several tarp tents and a wallmart pup tent. Wallmart is the capital of excessive consumerism and definately the place that lacks "common sense".

 

"I'd certainly accept many exceptions to this statement, based on common sense. If you doubt that common sense is common, maybe it's due to misunderstanding the definition." ?????????

 

Are you saying that since the masses buy this pup tent that it is common sense that it is a good or adequate tent? I never thought that most people who frequent walmart knew anything about camping more than 30 yards from the road.

[letsroll]

 

No way only the core shop at walmart.

[mattp]

Sorry about the mess in this thread. The mods for this forum took a vacation. We can't watch every discussion, though, and this seems to be sorting itself out.

 

Now that it is heading back on track, I have a couple of my own brilliant points to add:

 

1. A serious DISADVANTAGE of free standing tents is their proclivity to blow away, carrying their contents with them. On more than one occasion I've seen windstorms at high camps carry the free standing tents off the mountain or into a crevasse whereas those that were not freestanding were simply flattened or shredded so that the returning climbers at least had some of the gear left when they returned to camp.

 

2. I agree with JohnDavid's premise that just about anything will work for most of us most of the time. A piece of tyvek and eight pieces of cord is perfectly good for keeping the rain off when camping below timberline and a cheapo tent will keep the mosquitos out (for weekend trips, that is often the main reason I even bring a tent).

 

I use a simple REI brand tarp when snow camping on ski trips and without fail those who have not been camping with me before balk at it but, by the end of the trip, everybody is hanging out in my tarp and envious of the fact that I can sit on snow benches and cook in my sleeping bag - and this is especially true if it gets really nasty outside. Generally, however, when a storm hits and you cannot simply bail out and go home, you are probably going to want a little more than that - and a real mountain tent is a good idea when camping above timberline unless maybe you have only one or two nights and a good forecast.

 

[Bug]

Righto Mattp.

Just pissed at the sprayer.

 

I too have used tarps and other primitive shelters for decades. But get me out with my little girls or my wife from Florida and the shiny objects become more valuable. Especially if there is more than sleeping going on inside the tent. Using guyed tents is fine if you are willing to tighten them a couple times. - after rain, during wind. In a real storm you will have to get out and do some maintenance on the tent anyway though.

[letsroll]

LOL..... wife from florida. My g-friend the same way. Go high must have a floor (on snow) or some one is not happy. What I loose in sleeping bag weight I gain in tent weight. Funny how that works.

Edited May 5, 2009 by letsroll

[johndavidjr]

MattP comes to my rescue again, mentioning the common-sense exceptions.

 

My sarcasm above was purely in response to several utterly gratuitous attacks within THIS thread, only after which did I comment.

 

There is a weird, rather extreme, and essentially irrational hostility to notion that one need not spend vast amounts on tentage and/or whatever else one may personally identify with down at the local shopping mall. Lately "granite counter tops" seem to be the rage.

 

It's a bit like driving down the highway. Nearly all the cars seem to go along. A few unhappy people spend their lives telling others which car is best.

 

A couple of the many nights I've camped in moderately heavy snowfall was under a rectangular tarp configured in a somewhat complex manner, such that it afforded complete protection from substantial wind and nasty weather. That was long prior to Tyvek, in 1974, and I'd already had a fair number of seasons camping at times in similar conditions with several types of shelters.

 

I spent better part of two full summers in 1970s in that era's equivalent of a Wal-Mart puptent. No complaints.

That same tent in a heavy snowfall in 1983 was very much unsatisfactory, but better than nothing.

 

The Chinese tent-factory workers seem to do well enough sewing in the bug netting, whether for North Face Corp.'s expedition tents, or whatever Wal-Mart supplier.

 

One key is probably seam sealant.

 

 

 

[genepires]

Hey John David, the reason you get flamed is not the content of your message, but the presentation. Just a little FYI.

[Frikadeller]

Back on topic:

 

 

I have used both freestanding and non-freestanding tents with various results.

 

Once I bivied on Snowdome on the NF of Hood with a Eureka Solitare tent which is not free standing (a solo hoop tent) and guyed it out really well, and had some crazy east winds that night which I thought where going to blow up that little tent, but it survived.

 

On the other hand I had a four season tent (free standing NF VE25) get shredded and poles bent and broken by helicopter wash at Lake Ediza, when the SAR crew came by to drop off a crew and supplies on a mission to find a missing member of our party.

 

I have endured some really high winds in a NF Tadpole tent on the SS of hood, and it seemed fine (three season back packing tent, freestanding) and still use that tent to this day with confidence above the tree line as long as you guy it our right. The mesh parts to take some spindrift, but the rain fly usually catches most of it.

 

So, really, I would prefer a freestanding tent for the most part, not to mention, they are also easier to erect.

 

But then again, perhaps a $19 tent from wally world could work too, just don't be surprised to find it wet and cold inside when the top half flies away in the wind...

[johndavidjr]

This thread MUST die, and mostly has. Forgive me.

 

But the wonderful and superlight $19 Wally World tents, which do work pretty good, often, but definitely not always, and yet which nonetheless, really s**k... (a peculiarly mysterious paradox)...

...Actually don't have a "top half."

[letsroll]

if the thread must die, thanks for resurecting it again.

[billbob]

Setting up the tent properly makes a huge difference but can be a real challenge in a shitstorm. I didn't think that internal guy lines made a difference until winds on Hood shredded my freestanding MH Trango. While publicly humiliating myself with admissions of stupidity I should also mention that the same Trango tent, after repair, failed to remain on the ledge it was placed due in part to gusting winds but mostly due to my defective logic in thinking the tent would just stay right where it was until I could place my pack inside.

I guess my point is that you can have a really great tent and still be a dumbass... uh, no, wait.... I mean that if you are camping above treeline and the weather takes a turn for the worse as it so often does, then you had better know how to set up your tent properly regardless of type.

[johndavidjr]

Or go below treeline. If the weather warrants and it's a plausible approach, maybe you could plan on it. Sometimes that's only a short distance away from some utterly nasty camp site.

 

If you're a "newbie" and plan to camp far above the trees in a storm, okay, that's great. Then by all means, bring a zillion-pole tent and do also build the snow walls and etc. Give yourself time for all this, and eat a good breakfast!!!

 

Have fun too.

 

[Le Piston]

I've used a non-freestanding tent on a lot of climbs (including Rainier, Hood, Dragontail, Prusik, Daniel, etc.) before I had money to spend on better gear. If that is what you have, you can make it work with good guy-out technique and do just fine. I greatly prefer a freestanding tent myself, but not everyone can drop $300-700 for a nice 4 season shelter.

[LostCamKenny]

For christsakes at least take a tent out of the package and set it up in the store before you buy it.

 

 

On that note, I love my REI mountain 2 and mountain 3. They weigh a little more but they are worth it when the wind starts howling at 10K. Of course if you're not soloing you can split up the tent into its pieces and distribute the weight among the climbing party.