crimper Posted January 30, 2009 Author Posted January 30, 2009 hey bill. i never even got within 75 feet of the belayer and only spoke for 4-5 minutes. i also never said, point blank "your bolts will be chopped," although if they even had the slightest clue, they should have realized i was implying that the community would disapprove of their bolts, and likely remove them. so i can't say i have any inside line as to how they might react when faced with either holes or patches, but i do think that if they are going to be chopped, the quicker the better. Quote
billcoe Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) It sounds as if plenty of the villagers have already taken up the torches so I wouldn't expect Monday to be anything less than bolt free based on what I see here. I'd think that carefully unscrewing the bolts and pulling them and leaving clearly visable holes for 3-4 weeks and then patch the holes might be least destructive in case they come back and re-bolt, but I guess that call will made by whomever gets there first. Be nice to touch base with them on this before the whole bolt-in bolt-out cycle gets going.... Take care all! PS, are there any current community service projects (sketchy 1/4'er's being replaced on Monkey etc etc) being done right now that these could be donated for? That has a certain symmetry... Edited January 30, 2009 by billcoe Quote
hemp22 Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 yeah, i'm in agreement with bill - bolts should be gone by the end of the weekend - but maybe leave the holes until it's warm & dry enough to do a proper patch job. I don't know enough about bolts to know whether those guys could be re-used or anything, but at the very least, the hangers could find some more deserving homes on some of the other broughton's routes. ideally, the guys who put in the bolts would happen to be there while they're getting removed, so people could A) talk some sense in to them, and B) return their hardware to them to avoid hard feelings over that... Quote
pink Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) I agree that it was wrong to put a bolt ladder here. I'll add a couple completely conflicting thoughts for your consideration: 1. The damage is done, so why not let it be. I've heard people get extremely bent out of shape about a bolted crack at a Sport crag. Removing the bolts on the crack are not going to return a sport wall to the point where bolts are unnoticable. If someone feels that it is wrong to use bolts for a crack climb, then don't clip them. I agree that climbs that don't require bolts to climb should not be bolted, but once the damage is done, what's the point in chopping them. Perhaps the same goes here. I understand that not many will want to use these bolts, as it looks like aiding is the only use of them, but some may want to aid here? This is a horrible place for them, but again, the damage is done. 2. On the other hand, too many bolts on a wall can make the bolting more obvious and offend some folks. I can see where that could be the case with these bolts. Access to an area can be put at risk if unethical events occur, like too many bolts on a wall degrading the view for non-climbers who use the area. So, one might say it is the ethical duty of the climbing community to protect the crag by removing unnecesarry hardware. [video:youtube]Gvb65dCMjZI Edited January 31, 2009 by pink Quote
JosephH Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 I'd say pull them and leave a note in a bag on a stick in the first bolt hole explaining the reasons why they were pulled and directing them here. At this point I can patch them well enough so you'd have to really be up close looking for them with a pretty good idea where they were. Quote
kevbone Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 Just to be clear. What is the consensus reason for pulling them? Quote
ivan Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 Just to be clear. What is the consensus reason for pulling them? they make the baby-jesus cry Quote
JosephH Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 Just to be clear. What is the consensus reason for pulling them? Just to be clear. What was the consensus reason for putting them in? Quote
billcoe Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 ....who's selling some slightly used hangers...? Quote
ClimbingPanther Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 kevbone, can you see an ethical difference if someone had put in this instead of those bolts? because you shouldn't Quote
kevbone Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 Joseph. Come come you changed your log in name? Quote
Peter_Puget Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 OK after posturing for a week did someone posting in this thread actually go remove the bolts? Quote
ivan Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 kevbone, can you see an ethical difference if someone had put in this instead of those bolts? because you shouldn't depends - is a war on? i think a lot of the via ferrata was put in to get heavily laden troops up to commanding positions broughtons - gateway fortress of pdx!!! Quote
McGinnis Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 OK after posturing for a week did someone posting in this thread actually go remove the bolts? Anything yet? I haven't gone to look myself but might make a trip of it today. I have a wrench, I can make hangers disapear. Quote
hemp22 Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 still there as of yesterday. there's a slight chance i'll get there later today too, but it's not looking good. Quote
Peter_Puget Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 After 6 pages of concern we find that it's easier to post on the internet than it is to drive across town. Quote
billcoe Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 After 6 pages of concern we find that it's easier to post on the internet than it is to drive across town. Still there!? Well, Kevbone had posted that he knew someone who had driven over and climbed it, so at least the route is seeing some action. Obviously not everyone is outraged. Then bone pulled the post. Maybe too controversial to admit something like that I guess. Could be the villagers were heading over to burn the monster but saw a beer tent and took a left turn and forgot about it? Quote
kevbone Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 I dont remember deleting any posts Bill. Quote
billcoe Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 I dont remember deleting any posts Bill. I might have dream't it. Didn't you say you knew someone who climbed it? Quote
kevbone Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 I did say that...you know him too. That might have been in a diferent thread. Quote
billcoe Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 I did say that...you know him too. That might have been in a diferent thread. How about a trip report to get folks to nashing their teeth:-) GRRRRRRRR. Quote
McGinnis Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) Did anyone know there's a cabbage patch at the top of Broughton? It's been taken care of, the bolts and hangers are gone. From what I can tell it should be an easy patch job. All but one of the sleeves were sunk well into the wall. Rawl bolts all the way up. *I expect some love and hate because of this... If it ends up being a HUGE issue they're easy enough to put back up.* Sorry to not comfirm with everyone before heading out there and pulling these. I had work off today and felt somthing needed to be done. I'll give it a week and if no one claims (publicly) that they put this up and their reasoning I feel a discussion is to be had as far as doing some rehab to older bolts on the wall. Not all of the bolts up the "ladder" were a result of these guys so it was deffinatly crossing some lines. Deffinatly cut through parts of "Go Back to the Gym". In all 12 hangers and bolts were pulled. The bolt on the roof was left. I could tell it was older and was also a different size than the others. Red are the bolts that were pulled, green means they were there long ago and left. If the parties want their locker (red, white and blue) bolts and hangers back let me know. The other biners were pulled from higher up and if they're yours or you know whos let me know! Edited February 10, 2009 by McGinnis Quote
McGinnis Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) It appears the anchor that they were heading too is old. Not new. The anchor I used to fix my line to while removing these seemed quite new. No rust but dirty, obviously hadn't been used in a while but even still... Edited February 10, 2009 by McGinnis Quote
hemp22 Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Thanks for getting that done. A buddy and I were going to head out later this week, so you saved me a trip. If no one pipes up to claim the hardware, there are a few climbs out there that are in need of new hangers, and would be a good way to put them to use. Quote
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