Canoe Advice

[Fairweather]

Paddled for about 15 years in a big heavy Grumman 17', but sold it a few years ago. Now I'm looking for a canoe again that falls somewhere between the recreation and touring categories. 90% flat water with occasional class 1+ rivers and something that can handle a light-duty Alaska trip like the Admiralty Island traverse or Naha Bay near Ketchikan. I want something well under 70 lbs, 16 to 17 feet, and probably fiberglass or kevlar, but I haven't ruled out Royalex. I've heard good things about Clipper Canoes, made in Abbotsford, BC -- specifically, the "Cascade" or the "Tripper-S" models. Anyone here paddle regularly or have experience with this particular company's product?

[Mal_Con]

We have been canoeing for over 20 years. The Clippers are good boats and the models you suggested are appropriate you would probably be better off with kevlar particularly if you plan on many portages. Royalex is better for white water. We have an 18' Wenonah Sundowner Canoe 65 lbs in fiberglass which is similar but made in the USA. They are easier to paddle the longer they are. You might also want to consider the Mad River Explorer from Vermont available in kevlar, Royalex and Fiberglass. Usually there are a variety of layups having different weights. Boats last a long time so go for quality.

[murraysovereign]

Clippers are great boats. In BC and Alberta if you see a FG or Kev canoe, chances are it's a Clipper of some sort. For tripping as you have planned, the Tripper or Tripper S are hard to beat. I'm not familiar with the Cascade, but the differences between models are pretty slight so it would probably be a good choice also.

 

One thing about Clipper (all models) is their fixation with tractor seats. I'm a traditionalist, so prefer slat/webbing seats that sit a little higher and allow room underneath for your feet when kneeling. The tractor seats sit lower, and don't really allow for kneeling. I always feel like the gunwhales are too high as a result, and my legs are always just kind of sticking out in front of me because I can't tuck them under the seat. It's not a huge deal, but in a heavily-laden canoe that space in front of the stern seat is often used for stowing gear, in which case it could get a bit crowded for the helmsman, especially if they're long-legged.

 

They claim their seats allow for lower centre of gravity than when sitting on a slat seat (true, but not so much if kneeling), and that with the footbrace ahead of the stern seat the paddler has a more energy-efficient paddling stance (I'm a bit dubious of that one). In any case, you can have slat/webbing seats installed at time of construction instead of the tractor seats if, like me, you can't stand the low-slung bucket things.

 

In the important area - hull design - Clippers are as good as any I've found for versatility. Trippers in particular track beautifully, especially when loaded down, and they run easy-to-moderate whitewater like they were born for it. One difficulty I've encountered it's when soloing in wind. Because no Clippers have keels, they tend to get blown around a fair bit in the wind unless you've got two paddlers. In a light to moderate breeze they're fine, but around Squamish I have to pick my paddling times carefully or take the kayak if alone. It may just be my technique (I grew up with Frontiersman canoes, which are basically a big keel with some storage space above waterline) but I've tried pretty much every thing I can think of and still have a hard time keeping these things on course when it's windy. Again, it's not an issue with two paddlers - just soloing is tricky.

 

I've got one here (and a couple of smaller models - Escape, Scout and Yukon) if you want to take it for a spin out on Howe Sound or the lower Squamish River to see how you like it.

[Hugh Conway]

Check out Bell Canoe works from MN or Souris River from Canada; your general specs sound good. Wenonahs are nice.

 

Fiber/Kevlar paddles better, portages even more better, but wears worse. Royalex is a bitch to portage, paddles not so nice, but takes rocks well.

[tvashtarkatena]

Why not switch to a kayak? Faster, more comfy, safer in rough water, and a normal sized single or double will easily carry enough for a 2 week trip. Any kayak will handle a class 1 river no problem. Plus, a kayak will allow you to venture out into more open water, like Prince William Sound.

[Hugh Conway]

never heard a kayak described as "more comfy", they carry less, and kayaks suck to portage

[olyclimber]

kayaks can also be more expensive. i have one, but i'm considering selling it to buy a good canoe so i can float the yukon from source to the ocean. its on my bucket list sickie

[tvashtarkatena]

I find kayaks very comfortable, particularly as compared to canoes, and much easier to paddle, given that it's a symmetrical stroke that requires no bending of the back. I've done longer races in both types of boats (50 miles), and the kayak was much kinder on the body. In addition, much of your body is protected from the weather in a kayak. YMMV, of course.

 

As long as a boat carries enough for the length of trip you want to take, it's doing the job. An oil tanker carries more stuff, that is true, but most boating trips last 2 weeks or less. A double kayak will easily carry 800 lbs.

 

As far as portaging, kayaks are as easy or easier to portage with the right techniques and some simple gear; as with anything, you just have to know what you're doing.

 

As for speed, seaworthiness, and safety, there is simply no comparison. Kayaks are superior.

 

Not saying that canoes are bad. THey are cheaper.

Edited January 14, 2009 by tvashtarkatena

[G-spotter]

it's much easier to have sex in a canoe than sex in a kayak.

[G-spotter]

but why is sex in a canoe like American beer?

[G-spotter]

it's fucking close to water!

[olyclimber]

biggest headache i have ever had= after drinking 4 Molson Ice beers.

 

I'm pretty sure Molson Ice is Canadian for donkey piss.

[prole]

Sleeman's is even worse.

[Hugh Conway]

it's much easier to have sex in a canoe than sex in a kayak.

 

Point irrelevant to TTK, he's an onanist only

[G-spotter]

biggest headache i have ever had= after drinking 4 Molson Ice beers.

 

I'm pretty sure Molson Ice is Canadian for donkey piss.

 

No one in Canada drinks tha - it's just for Americans who miss American-style beer.

[G-spotter]

And why did it take you 4 to realize it was piss?

[olyclimber]

it was the only beer i could afford, and i wanted to get my drink on after the bowrons. so i got my muthafing drink on. while it doesn't taste very good, it was really the headache the next day that was the molson signature.

[tvashtarkatena]

All that for $11 a sixer. Canada: where freedom isn't free.

[Fairweather]

I've got one here (and a couple of smaller models - Escape, Scout and Yukon) if you want to take it for a spin out on Howe Sound or the lower Squamish River to see how you like it.

 

Thanks for such a generous offer. How do you like the Scout? It's a little smaller than I want, but it sure looks like a handy/light boat. I'm going to paddle a Wenonah Adirondack and/or Spirit II this weekend (if I don't climb) and take my time making a decision, but I'll let you know if I'm up your way. Thanks to all for the info/advice. TTK - Kayaks would be pretty cool--my wife and I usually rent when we go up to the San Juan Islands and we have a blast--but 2-$2,000 boats versus one $1500 craft that I feel comfortable in is where I'm at. Maybe someday we'll go that route. Besides, paddling a canoe with the wife is one of the truest tests a marriage can undertake.

[mccallboater]

I've owned, let's see, 7 canoes and at least a dozen ww kayaks and a few sea kayaks. My latest obsession is this 30 year old Easy Rider ES1, still made in Seattle, I think.

 

It's the closest thing to an all-round boat I've ever used. I'd float it down the middle fork of the Salmon or take it up the inland passage to AK. Maybe I ought to do both in one trip!

 

[murraysovereign]

How do you like the Scout? It's a little smaller than I want, but it sure looks like a handy/light boat.

 

You pretty much nailed it - handy and light. You lose a fair bit of speed and tracking with such a short hull, and it can get a bit squirrely when loaded down, but portaging is way easy. If you carry the canoe in one hand, and your four-pack of Molson Ice in the other, the load is almost perfectly balanced so it's easy on your spine. Just watch out for the headache the next day...