I'm confused about this religous message...

[pink]

[video:youtube]urlTBBKTO68

[tvashtarkatena]

I subscribe to more of a Stephen Jay Gould perpspective: consciousness evolved because, well, it just did, and now we're stuck trying to figure out what to do with it. Not very sexy, I know, but easy to remember.

[tvashtarkatena]

Wanna purpose? Make one up. Hell, that's what the thumpers do.

[pink]

I subscribe to more of a Stephen Jay Gould perpspective: consciousness evolved because, well, it just did, and now we're stuck trying to figure out what to do with it. Not very sexy, I know, but easy to remember.

 

so much for sustaining energy with wind power.....

[pink]

Wanna purpose? Make one up. Hell, that's what the thumpers do.

 

my purpose is to have "no purpose"

[tvashtarkatena]

I subscribe to more of a Stephen Jay Gould perpspective: consciousness evolved because, well, it just did, and now we're stuck trying to figure out what to do with it. Not very sexy, I know, but easy to remember.

 

so much for sustaining energy with wind power.....

 

SHEEIT, I gotta get up in two hours for another purposeless day of climbing. Maybe I'll just throw myself off on lead because, you know, what's the point of it all, anyway.

 

No encouragement, please.

 

Nighty nighty righty tighties.

[tvashtarkatena]

[Mal_Con]

WE are nihilists we believe in nothing!

[Bug]

This, overall, is a very uninformed discussion.

There is no distinction between "religion" and "spirituality" which are often very different experiences. There is also no expressed awareness of the colloquial "myth" as it contrasts with "mythology".

This circumstance cannot help but lead to a dichotomy between "science" and religion". It serves no purpose other than to expose the values of your families of origin in a broad social-anthropological way.

But you all seem so happy for once.

Carry on.

[Bug]

He is richest whose needs are least.

-Thoreau

Great sig.

 

Reminds me of "He who is least amoung you is first before God."

 

Hank also had some baggage he didn't claim.

[Peakpimp]

I know most of this movie is pretty far out there, depending on what you believe, but I think this clip really sums up how I feel about the whole thing.

 

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaVKriQnADU

[Bug]

"The planet is a single organism."

"The revolution is now."

 

Perhaps in industrialized societies the revolution is now.

The concept of the earth being one organism is what the native americans both north and south have been trying to tell us for a few hundered years.

A shamman from the Amazon was sent to the United Nations by his peers in 1978. He was allowed to speak as his mission was clearly of no threat. He stood up and said that the world was out of balance. Man had too much power over nature and man was not using that power wisely. That the world could still heal itself if it is given a chance. And that if the world was not given a chance to heal itself soon, it would be too late.

 

[dmuja]

a few questions..

 

If God is "all knowing" why doesn't he know my true intent (ie my heart) and juss go wit dat?

 

If he does know my heart, why do I have to say things out loud like "I declare Jesus Christ to be my lord and savior.."? before he lets me chill?

 

If God is all powerful, why does he get jealous? Why wrathful? I know some regular people who never get jealous or wrathful even, are they more better than God?

 

If God is all powerful, why can't he kick satans ass and laugh at him trying to eat corn on the cobb with no teeth?

 

If we are "made in his image" why so many ugly people? unless...

 

If God knows whats next, why don't he just do somethin about it?

 

Oh God, if youre God, why you fuck with peoples heads so much bitch?

 

..and wus up with nuns an shit?

 

..and why you make butts anyway??

[marc_leclerc]

[video:youtube]7-NOZU2iPA8

 

[Peakpimp]

"The planet is a single organism."

Yeah Ol' Carl Sagan had it right... "an organism at war with it self... is doomed" That guy was the man.

[pc313]

"The planet is a single organism."

Yeah Ol' Carl Sagan had it right... "an organism at war with it self... is doomed" That guy was the man.

 

Man can fuck shit up on Earth,and Earth can fuck Man up,but the Sun is the real boss!

 

I think people who pray to the Sun,are the smart ones!

[Bug]

You will have to ask a Catholic or a fundamentalist most of those questions. They really are not questions nor assertions that I beleive to be in the same context as my beleifs.

 

It is my understanding that God just wants you to be who you are and get to know you.

[pc313]

I was raised in the Catholic church,and could not for the life of me understand if god is every where why do we have to go to Church,i mean come on, he knows every thing i do anyway!

 

This didn't make the money changers very happy with me,because its all about the money.

Edited December 7, 2008 by pc313

[The_Rooster]

 

It is my understanding that God just wants you to be who you are and get to know you.

 

If God's plan involves me becoming a cordon bleu sandwich, then I don't want anything to do with that psycho!

 

[Bug]

The Vatican has art works worth tens of millions of dollars on every wall. Their bishops moved preists who were known pedifiles from parish to parish yet the Vatican says the Congregation has to pay the settlement that the court awarded.

 

I have always been appalled at the pagentry and opulence of Catholic churches and ritual. Other demoninations try to be just as bad. I think they all say it is to glorify God. Meanwhile people like Mother Teresa go begging for funds.

 

I have been a registered member of two churches. Both of them rented time in public schools to hold services. The money that was collected was spent transparently. The Pastor was paid. The rent was paid. Administrative costs and outreach programs were covered.

In both cases, most of the money went to specific missions in remote areas. The missions were orphanages and medical clinics.

 

For me, Church is where Christians meet with other Christians to plan their service to the community and share their faith with each other. There is a lot of persecution, understandably, and we need to help each other.

[Bug]

 

It is my understanding that God just wants you to be who you are and get to know you.

 

If God's plan involves me becoming a cordon bleu sandwich, then I don't want anything to do with that psycho!

 

I am moving toward a raw food diet. It is a Vedic tradition that goes back at least three thousand years.

 

But alas, cashew chicken at Thai Ginger just goes down so nicely. I doubt it will ever be completely off the menu.

Got any sisters? I also love eggs.

[Peakpimp]

If God's plan involves me becoming a cordon bleu sandwich, then I don't want anything to do with that psycho!

 

And here I thought roosters got castrated for capons.

 

[Doug]

The Vatican has art works worth tens of millions of dollars on every wall. Their bishops moved preists who were known pedifiles from parish to parish yet the Vatican says the Congregation has to pay the settlement that the court awarded.

 

I have always been appalled at the pagentry and opulence of Catholic churches and ritual. Other demoninations try to be just as bad. I think they all say it is to glorify God. Meanwhile people like Mother Teresa go begging for funds.

 

I have been a registered member of two churches. Both of them rented time in public schools to hold services. The money that was collected was spent transparently. The Pastor was paid. The rent was paid. Administrative costs and outreach programs were covered.

In both cases, most of the money went to specific missions in remote areas. The missions were orphanages and medical clinics.

 

For me, Church is where Christians meet with other Christians to plan their service to the community and share their faith with each other. There is a lot of persecution, understandably, and we need to help each other.

 

We were in Boston this past summer. On a recommendation we took the unofficial Harvard tour (which I highly recommend). One of the tour guides says that "Harvard's endowments make it the second wealthiest institution in the world. Second behind? The Catholic Church. So, let that tell you that if you can't believe in God, you can believe in Harvard"

 

 

[dmuja]

RE:

Seems you're confusing the manifestations of human institutions versus a sense of wonder and awe of the universe. The latter is prerequisite to a religious/spiritual outlook on life.

 

and..

True Atheism does not exist. A true athieist would end their life as soon as they truly believed in Atheism.......but you need to realize that people cannot comprehend nothingness for a reason -- it does not exist. And that is the only thing that does not exist - John Flaschberger

 

 

One time, at band camp, i dropped acid and slept with this girl..here is what I learned..

 

 

"Religion" is a result of the onset and evolution of consciousness.

 

When our brains finally became developed enough (via biological evolution) to self reflect, our consciousness produced the illusion of "selfness". Once you have a self you then start asking things like, "How could I be here now without having been somewhere else before?", "Where will I be after I die?", "Where did I come from?" The easy conclusion is that the self (the "I") was created by a creator or a God. But since the science is pointing to a different conclusion - that human consciousness derives from (and evolved with) the human brain - we should probly reconsider the "easy" solution.

 

As it turns out (most likely), there is no one single individual experiencing things and moments, there are merely things and moments cognitively tied together to form a coherent and orderly structure of perception which results in the illusory conceptual phenomenon of an individual "self". Once you understand that "I" may be an illusion (or atleast erroneously projected by your brain) you can then get past the idea of a creator god who made "you".

 

But arn't "believers the only people with morality? No. Arn't believers the only people with compassion? No. Arn't believers the only people who are met with a sense of creative wonderment and awe when gazing at the world? Of coarse not. These "higher" qualities of human behavior and consciousness are not necessarily correlated to nor derived from a supernatural presence or "creator". They simply stand on their own as a valuable and maybe necessary result of human evolution.

 

The real "problem with religion" however comes down to a problem of closed mindedness or intentional ignorance. It is a problem of being so emphatically certain about your view (and ironically insecure as well) that you seek to impose it (consciously or unconsciously) on others. This violates the very open mindedness, the very awe and wonder, the very inquisitiveness that is at the heart of what brings us to a "sacred" view of life. Of coarse not all religious people act in this way and for that reason there is a distinction to be made between those that do and those that don't.

 

To summarize, Ken Hutcherson is a moron and an asshole..

[Bug]

One time, at band camp, i dropped acid and slept with this girl..here is what I learned..

 

 

"Religion" is a result of the onset and evolution of consciousness.

Since there is no way to prove this scientifically, I will insert an "imo" here for you.

 

When our brains finally became developed enough (via biological evolution) to self reflect, our consciousness produced the illusion of "selfness". Once you have a self you then start asking things like, "How could I be here now without having been somewhere else before?", "Where will I be after I die?", "Where did I come from?" The easy conclusion is that the self (the "I") was created by a creator or a God. But since the science is pointing to a different conclusion - that human consciousness derives from (and evolved with) the human brain - we should probly reconsider the "easy" solution.

Again, there is an inability to address the topic from anything but a forced application of the negative aspects of some, or maybe even most, religious factions. A study of contemporary religious philosophy would beneefit those who choose to "fix" their own perceptions of relious beliefs and practicees on the concept as a whole. It makes no more sense to argue against outdated expressions of religion than it does to argue against outdate scientific principles.

 

 

As it turns out (most likely), there is no one single individual experiencing things and moments, there are merely things and moments cognitively tied together to form a coherent and orderly structure of perception which results in the illusory conceptual phenomenon of an individual "self". Once you understand that "I" may be an illusion (or atleast erroneously projected by your brain) you can then get past the idea of a creator god who made "you".

Interesting twist on an old concept.

The mystics of many traditions, including christianity, expressed a "loss of self" or "nothingness" as the way to find God.

The mystics were usually labelled as heritics by the fundamentalist factions of their respective religious traditions.

But arn't "believers the only people with morality? No. Arn't believers the only people with compassion? No. Arn't believers the only people who are met with a sense of creative wonderment and awe when gazing at the world? Of coarse not. These "higher" qualities of human behavior and consciousness are not necessarily correlated to nor derived from a supernatural presence or "creator". They simply stand on their own as a valuable and maybe necessary result of human evolution.

This is off the wall. Even childish in a way.

Evolution does not mean there is no God and if there is a God, it does not mean there was no evolution. Again, the study of "Mythology" as an anthropological term would make this more understandable to those who beleive in a fundamentalist approach to religion or that all religious practitioners are fundamentalists.

 

The real "problem with religion" however comes down to a problem of closed mindedness or intentional ignorance. It is a problem of being so emphatically certain about your view (and ironically insecure as well) that you seek to impose it (consciously or unconsciously) on others. This violates the very open mindedness, the very awe and wonder, the very inquisitiveness that is at the heart of what brings us to a "sacred" view of life. Of coarse not all religious people act in this way and for that reason there is a distinction to be made between those that do and those that don't.

 

To summarize, Ken Hutcherson is a moron and an asshole..

Not all religious people act that way. Those that do are behind the curve. In the "evolution" of the study of religion and even the "academic" study of spirituality, these concepts you are presenting here are no longer relevant. It would be like trying to prove that science was bunk based on 19th century scientific principles.

Never the less, I share your frustration with those religious practitioners who feel the need to prove a literal belief in ancient mythologies. It is, however, throwing the baby out with the bath water to deem these mythologies as worthless. It makes no more sense than burning all of Shakespear's works or dispensing with recorded history. The Old and New Testaments and the Quran, are brilliant works. They reflect the process of mankinds' coming to awareness as you noted above. They hold great relevance for the study of social phsycology and even personal reflection. There is a wealth of profound human experiences described in parables, analogies, allegory and untold nuances we have yet to identify.

Regardless of which basecamp you are in, it is foolish to ignore the richness of the other camp.

Even as we argue, we are more alike than not.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Bug