underworld Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 obama: increase the military and put an ROTC booth back at Columbia university Quote
akhalteke Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 Obama is like the middle schooler running for class president that promises free soda and chips from the vending machines to get elected. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 (edited) Obama speaks very clearly and plainly about his foreign policy plans: pull out of Iraq, defeat Al Quaeda and stabilize Afghanistan for starters. Repair international friendships as a second course.  That doesn't make a lick of sense at all to me.  1) He changed his mind; His view are very similar to McCain's now  2) Defeat AlQueda? Why didn't we think of that?  3) Stabilize Afghanistan. Now were talking.  How.  No, his plans are very different; McCain plans to stay in Iraq forever, if necessary. That would preclude doing a proper job in Afghanistan; we just don't have enough stuff for both places. That's a huge, fundamental difference between today's ongoing and expensive failure and possible success if we change course. THis isn't rocket science; both candidates have been very clear about what they intend to do.  Also, all candidates from both sides have vowed to defeat Al Qaeda since 9/11, so you're making shit up there. Edited September 12, 2008 by tvashtarkatena Quote
mattp Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 Alkatete, your posts sound a lot to me like you've swallowed the ridiculous idea that we can win the war on terror through military means. Do you think that? Quote
akhalteke Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 Actually Obama has not been clear. He stated that we would be out in 16 months, then said that getting out would be determinate on a "multitued of factors" How is this any different than McCain? Because he sugar coats it? Quote
akhalteke Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 Alkatete, your posts sound a lot to me like you've swallowed the ridiculous idea that we can win the war on terror through military means. Do you think that? Â I believe that the military is but one asset in the fight. DA should take a back seat to nation building and political change. In Iraq, it is necessary to have [a] military presence so that these things can take place. (How many diplomats would come to help the process if they knew there were a 50% of being capped in the mellon?). It is not as simple as you all might think. Quote
akhalteke Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 "Also, all candidates from both sides have vowed to defeat Al Qaeda since 9/11, so you're making shit up there. " Â Are you serious? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 Actually Obama has not been clear. He stated that we would be out in 16 months, then said that getting out would be determinate on a "multitued of factors" How is this any different than McCain? Because he sugar coats it? Â That's not being unclear. That's just reasonably recognizing the reality of a changing situation, and the fact that, um, he's not president yet, so he's not able to make an exact plan. Â Could you? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 "Also, all candidates from both sides have vowed to defeat Al Qaeda since 9/11, so you're making shit up there. " Â Are you serious? Â Great refutation. I'm totally destroyed over here. Quote
akhalteke Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 Actually Obama has not been clear. He stated that we would be out in 16 months, then said that getting out would be determinate on a "multitued of factors" How is this any different than McCain? Because he sugar coats it? Â That's not being unclear. That's just reasonably recognizing the reality of a changing situation, and the fact that, um, he's not president yet, so he's not able to make an exact plan. Â Could you? Â So tell me what the difference between him and McCain are? Semantics? Or something more? Quote
akhalteke Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 "Also, all candidates from both sides have vowed to defeat Al Qaeda since 9/11, so you're making shit up there. " Â Are you serious? Â Great refutation. I'm totally destroyed over here. Â Well maybe you noticed my sarcasm in both posts. Or, maybe it just flew right over that lil over-inflated head of yours. Quote
mattp Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 So tell me what the difference between him and McCain are? Semantics? Or something more? Â There is a clear difference in how they talk about it. Obama has been pretty consistent to say that invading Iraq was a mistake from the beginning and that he doesn't think we can or should sustain the present occupation. McCain has been fairly consistent in saying it is a good thing that we invaded Iraq, a resounding victory is attainable, and we should not be looking toward withdrawal as a goal but only draw down our occupying forces if conditions suggest it. Â As to how they will actually manage the war, political factors and on-the-ground reality may well grant them less room to put their respective "visions" into play than we or they may wish. The Iraqi's want us out and the generals have said over and over that we cannot sustain the military presence we presently have there. The money spent on paying the Iraqi's not to fight each other may dry up or become politically infeasible. Other priorities may intervene. Â My guess is that Obama will not be able to get us out in 16 months and McCain will not be able to attain "victory." Quote
JoshK Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 Obama is like the middle schooler running for class president that promises free soda and chips from the vending machines to get elected. Â Wow you are dumb. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 Obama is like the middle schooler running for class president that promises free soda and chips from the vending machines to get elected. Â Wow you are dumb. Â Please continue with this line of posting so AKA has someone else to seek approval from. I'll make it up to you, I promise. Quote
billcoe Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 Please continue with this line of posting so AKA has someone else to seek approval from. I'll make it up to you, I promise. Â free soda and chips from the vending machines? Quote
fear_and_greed Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 Obama speaks very clearly and plainly about his foreign policy plans: pull out of Iraq, defeat Al Quaeda and stabilize Afghanistan for starters. Repair international friendships as a second course.  That doesn't make a lick of sense at all to me.  1) He changed his mind; His view are very similar to McCain's now  2) Defeat AlQueda? Why didn't we think of that?  3) Stabilize Afghanistan. Now were talking.  How. I knew it , ah knew it. Judging from the # of troops deployed, Osamas bin hiding in Germany all these years! http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/deploy.htm Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 12, 2008 Posted September 12, 2008 Well, if Al Qaeda ever strikes in Italy or Japan, we'll be ready for 'em! Quote
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