Generation Kill

[olyclimber]

http://www.hbo.com/generationkill/

 

would like to watch this to see if it is any good. any westsiders have HBO?

[olyclimber]

just watched the trailer. maybe not. hopefully it won't be an over the top political statement.

[olyclimber]

anyone read the book?

[Serenity]

I informally interviewed several Vietnam veterans in the eighties and early nineties, all of which had a HUGE disdain for the then in vogue crop of post Vietnam films (AKA Oliver Stone's Platoon) which purported to tell the 'real' story of what it was like in "the Nam'.

 

Over the course of 2 decades I have come to the conclusion that they (veterans) were indeed right. Hollywierd gets it wrong everytime, and another generation will be left with a warped sense of what the reality was.

 

If you want to know what it's like then sign up. WARNAG deploys here shortly for a nice long 15 month rotation in 'the sandbox'.

 

Embedding should never have been allowed. Everyone I know hates reporters. When Geraldo asked us if we wanted his picture taken with him, my buddy loudly said "phuck no", and we all walked away laughing at his sorry a$$.

 

I guess the only men who will know how good or how bad it is are the men of 1/1 who served during that time period.

[olyclimber]

i don't think i'll be signing up, thanks. i would be interesting in hearing more opinions about the embeds and their thoughts on the program. this series is based on a book by an embed, i'm wondering that the group he was with thinks of his portrayal of them.

[Serenity]

After 6 years downrange in either of the boxes, I can tell you that embeds are almost universally despised and distrusted. It was a foolish program that has cost good people lives and careers.

[olyclimber]

well i couldn't imagine having to be stuck in combat with Geraldo embedded in the group. sounds like hell^2

[Serenity]

War is hell after all. Having Geraldo around just brings it to the 7th level.

[akhalteke]

Read the book. Kinda dramatized to fit its target audience (guys playing Counter Strike). It was what it was and it wasn't very accurate.

[builder206]

How do you know it's inaccurate? The reporter rode with the jarheads and wrote what he saw. What was incorrect about his writing?

[akhalteke]

How do you know it's inaccurate? The reporter rode with the jarheads and wrote what he saw. What was incorrect about his writing?

 

Some people who were there thought differently. Lets just put it that way. A lot of people have different interpretations even when they see the same things.

[tvashtarkatena]

One thing most reporters never seem to get right is the humor the sprouts from an inherently fucked up situation like combat. IMO, Black Hawk Down (the book) got that right.

 

Another way to get a feel for it without begging the military to ease off on its overage limit is to read good military history. Atkinson is excellent; An Army at Dawn is probably his best work. He captures the story in the words of the men who were there, both the humor and the horror.

[akhalteke]

IMO, Black Hawk Down (the book) got that right.

 

I haven't heard a bad review from anyone who was present on this book. Very analytical and doesn't try to throw in any political agenda (seems like it is the only one).

[mattp]

A lot of people have different interpretations even when they see the same things.

 

An important point. Our memories play tricks on us but we'll all swear by our own recollection of events.

 

In reflecting on Serenity's comments above, I wonder just how "weirdwood" might ever have "gotten it right?" A daily journal of someone fighting in Iraq or elsewhere would reveal that the vast majority of time spent even in an active war zone is neither exciting nor heroic, wouldn't it? And any accurate recounting of "what it was like" would have to reflect the reality that there are as many realities as there are soldiers, and none of those are real either. That "truth" would be hard to portray even in a book, let alone a film.

 

If Oliver Stone entertained his audience while imparting even a distorted sense of what it was like but at least some of the sensibilities involved shone through that'd be as good as any newspaper or historical text account, wouldn't it?

 

In what fundamental way was this production misleading?

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Yeah, that's what I liked about it. And that's probably how the author gained the trust of the men he interviewed.

 

I think there are many good journalists out there. Citing a Geraldo encounter is entertaining, but hardly a credible argument against embedding. In a free society, the public pays for this shit (in a totalitarian one, too, for that matter), so the public has a right to know what the fuck is going on.

 

The 'security breach' argument against embedding is a load of pure shite. That can be easily screened for by the military itself.

[tvashtarkatena]

Of course, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is probably the greatest treatise on war and madness ever written. Beautifully written, and riveting from beginning to end.

[akhalteke]

Of course, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is probably the greatest treatise on war and madness ever written. Beautifully written, and riveting from beginning to end.

 

William Shirer right? That was a beast of a book, but entertaining (suprisingly) as well as seemingly unbiased.

[tvashtarkatena]

Right. What makes it so kick ass is that Shirer lived in Germany until just before the war; he met Hitler knew many members of his staff personally.

 

Albert Speer's book Inside the Third Reich was also amazing; the best expose of who Hitler really was (and how clownishly the Third Reich was at the highest levels) out there.

Edited July 9, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[canyondweller]

Of course, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is probably the greatest treatise on war and madness ever written. Beautifully written, and riveting from beginning to end.

 

William Shirer right? That was a beast of a book, but entertaining (suprisingly) as well as seemingly unbiased.

 

His book, 'Berlin Diary', is also very good.

[tvashtarkatena]

I'll look for it. I feel like reading about zee chumans again for some reason.

[canyondweller]

I'll look for it. I feel like reading about zee chumans again for some reason.

 

Shirer was posted in Germany, or in and out of Germany, since the time Hitler ascended to power in '33. He has a unique view into how life, society, etc., shifted and changed as things marched on towards war and up to the point where he left (I think in '42).