Gas prices

[grtmtnchic]

Your answer is google? Oh please, you can find anything via google to support any viewpoint you want. Read up on Biofuels a bit more. And that article only points to "potential" issues...you're gonna have to do better than that.

[minx]

they have issues b/c they are forcing up the price of wheat and other agricultural products. an increase in production of biofuels may lead to food shortage or continued destruction of eco sensitivity land such as rainforest

[JayB]

I wish I was paying 3.55

 

 

1.16cad/L or 4.40usd/gallon here.

 

Fleetwide efficiency looks to be pretty similar in the US and Canada, despite the higher prices.

 

Makes me think the incentive-threshold necessary to make everyone lust after a LeCar is higher than whatever the current price is in Canada.

 

 

[Dechristo]

Similarly, I listened to a report on the Earth & Sky program that stated biofuel programs are currently affecting negatively world starvation stats.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Your answer is google? Oh please, you can find anything via google to support any viewpoint you want. Read up on Biofuels a bit more. And that article only points to "potential" issues...you're gonna have to do better than that.

 

seems to me YOU are just looking at the articles you want.

 

food prices are already rising because of biofuels. The US gov't and businesses are "encouraging" 3rd world countries to provide biofuels at the expense of the environment, and their own people (e.g. Brazil). It's all over the place. But I guess it's easier to hum a simplistic mantra "biofuels are the answer". there is no silver bullet

 

[JayB]

$3.16 in Boston, $3.35 or so in CT last weekend.

 

It'd be interesting to look at how state fuel-tax variations affect gas-station distribution near state borders.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Similarly, I listened to a report on the Earth & Sky program that stated biofuel programs are currently affecting negatively world starvation stats.

 

and deforestation/destruction of what little remains of undeveloped land (e.g. rainforests)

[grtmtnchic]

they have issues b/c they are forcing up the price of wheat and other agricultural products. an increase in production of biofuels may lead to food shortage or continued destruction of eco sensitivity land such as rainforest

 

Now that's an intelligent point of view. There are some really interesting developments in biofuels. The big one being developed right now is an Algae-based fuel - isn't that crazy?

 

What really interests me is finding an alternative solution to being dependent on foreign fuels...and finding a sustainable way to do it, which will bring the price of fuel back to an affordable level. Biofuels seem to have the most options with very few drawbacks. What I've seen in my hometown is farmers who haven't been able to make a living on crops they used to (apples, asparagus) because they are now imported cheaper from other countries, and those farmers are now planting canola and other biofuel crops that will be more profitable.

 

Ethanol is more likely to be derived from corn grown on "rainforest" land, not the oils used for biodiesel. I'm not advocating ethanol use, just biodiesel.

 

 

[grtmtnchic]

Similarly, I listened to a report on the Earth & Sky program that stated biofuel programs are currently affecting negatively world starvation stats.

 

and deforestation/destruction of what little remains of undeveloped land (e.g. rainforests)

 

You're talking about ethanol here. I'm talking about biodiesel. Different fuel.

 

 

[grtmtnchic]

Your answer is google? Oh please, you can find anything via google to support any viewpoint you want. Read up on Biofuels a bit more. And that article only points to "potential" issues...you're gonna have to do better than that.

 

seems to me YOU are just looking at the articles you want.

 

food prices are already rising because of biofuels. The US gov't and businesses are "encouraging" 3rd world countries to provide biofuels at the expense of the environment, and their own people (e.g. Brazil). It's all over the place. But I guess it's easier to hum a simplistic mantra "biofuels are the answer". there is no silver bullet

 

There is nothing in biodiesel that would otherwise be a food crop (well, soy, but it's not the most efficient source of oil - mostly biodiesel is derived from canola and rapeseed oil - you wanna eat that?). You're thinking of ethanol which is derived from corn and wheat.

 

And, yeah, I do think biofuels are the answer to our fuel situation.

 

 

[minx]

Similarly, I listened to a report on the Earth & Sky program that stated biofuel programs are currently affecting negatively world starvation stats.

 

and deforestation/destruction of what little remains of undeveloped land (e.g. rainforests)

 

You're talking about ethanol here. I'm talking about biodiesel. Different fuel.

 

 

same effect. ethanol also has the same agricultural implications.

 

clearly we need alternative fuel sources but it seems that there won't be one catch all answer. perhaps we need to be looking at multiple sources of fuel in the future to minimize the impact of any one.

[Hugh Conway]

It'd be interesting to look at how state fuel-tax variations affect gas-station distribution near state borders.

 

I'd wager there'd be 0 correlation. When local gas station prices can very as much as $.20 within 10 miles clearly price isn't a big deal

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Your answer is google? Oh please, you can find anything via google to support any viewpoint you want. Read up on Biofuels a bit more. And that article only points to "potential" issues...you're gonna have to do better than that.

 

seems to me YOU are just looking at the articles you want.

 

food prices are already rising because of biofuels. The US gov't and businesses are "encouraging" 3rd world countries to provide biofuels at the expense of the environment, and their own people (e.g. Brazil). It's all over the place. But I guess it's easier to hum a simplistic mantra "biofuels are the answer". there is no silver bullet

 

There is nothing in biodiesel that would otherwise be a food crop (well, soy, but it's not the most efficient source of oil - mostly biodiesel is derived from canola and rapeseed oil - you wanna eat that?). You're thinking of ethanol which is derived from corn and wheat.

 

And, yeah, I do think biofuels are the answer to our fuel situation.

 

 

It's still a crop. There is a limit to the arable land available on this earth. Either less food is grown, and starvation is increased, or you destroy more forested areas to grow the plants needed. Water/irrigation will also be a problem.

[grtmtnchic]

Similarly, I listened to a report on the Earth & Sky program that stated biofuel programs are currently affecting negatively world starvation stats.

 

and deforestation/destruction of what little remains of undeveloped land (e.g. rainforests)

 

You're talking about ethanol here. I'm talking about biodiesel. Different fuel.

 

 

same effect. ethanol also has the same agricultural implications.

 

clearly we need alternative fuel sources but it seems that there won't be one catch all answer. perhaps we need to be looking at multiple sources of fuel in the future to minimize the impact of any one.

 

My point was, I don't advocate ethanol - it's not an efficient fuel source, although it is a "biofuel" - I meant to distinguish it from biodiesel which is a sustainable fuel source. That's all. Yes, looking at all alternatives is the best way to figure out something that is better than what the modus operandi is - what we're doing isn't working.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

what we're doing isn't working.

 

Umm, actually what we're NOT doing is what isn't working.

 

More efficient cars, people being less wasteful, better city planning/development, better mass transit options, etc.

 

[rob]

I've read about the algae projects, too. They're pretty interesting and show promise. Of course there is no silver bullet, but it's still an alternative that should be researched -- especially if they can discover a way to generate biofuels more efficiently without needing to clear large tracts of land.

 

Then again, if everyone were vegetarians, imagine how much more land there would be to grow biofuels.

 

Just saying.

[grtmtnchic]

Your answer is google? Oh please, you can find anything via google to support any viewpoint you want. Read up on Biofuels a bit more. And that article only points to "potential" issues...you're gonna have to do better than that.

 

seems to me YOU are just looking at the articles you want.

 

food prices are already rising because of biofuels. The US gov't and businesses are "encouraging" 3rd world countries to provide biofuels at the expense of the environment, and their own people (e.g. Brazil). It's all over the place. But I guess it's easier to hum a simplistic mantra "biofuels are the answer". there is no silver bullet

 

There is nothing in biodiesel that would otherwise be a food crop (well, soy, but it's not the most efficient source of oil - mostly biodiesel is derived from canola and rapeseed oil - you wanna eat that?). You're thinking of ethanol which is derived from corn and wheat.

 

And, yeah, I do think biofuels are the answer to our fuel situation.

 

 

It's still a crop. There is a limit to the arable land available on this earth. Either less food is grown, and starvation is increased, or you destroy more forested areas to grow the plants needed. Water/irrigation will also be a problem.

 

What?! What do you think is going on with our current source of fuel....seriously. Do you think our current fuel source is sustainable? GMFB!

 

And don't get me started on the state of agriculture in America...unless you actually know what you're talking about.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I've read about the algae projects, too. They're pretty interesting and show promise. Of course there is no silver bullet, but it's still an alternative that should be researched -- especially if they can discover a way to generate biofuels more efficiently without needing to clear large tracts of land.

 

Then again, if everyone were vegetarians, imagine how much more land there would be to grow biofuels.

 

Just saying.

 

vegetarians are weird.

[Hugh Conway]

Then again, if everyone were vegetarians, imagine how much more land there would be to grow biofuels.

 

eh? animal production and consumption isn't inherently inefficient

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Your answer is google? Oh please, you can find anything via google to support any viewpoint you want. Read up on Biofuels a bit more. And that article only points to "potential" issues...you're gonna have to do better than that.

 

seems to me YOU are just looking at the articles you want.

 

food prices are already rising because of biofuels. The US gov't and businesses are "encouraging" 3rd world countries to provide biofuels at the expense of the environment, and their own people (e.g. Brazil). It's all over the place. But I guess it's easier to hum a simplistic mantra "biofuels are the answer". there is no silver bullet

 

There is nothing in biodiesel that would otherwise be a food crop (well, soy, but it's not the most efficient source of oil - mostly biodiesel is derived from canola and rapeseed oil - you wanna eat that?). You're thinking of ethanol which is derived from corn and wheat.

 

And, yeah, I do think biofuels are the answer to our fuel situation.

 

 

It's still a crop. There is a limit to the arable land available on this earth. Either less food is grown, and starvation is increased, or you destroy more forested areas to grow the plants needed. Water/irrigation will also be a problem.

 

What?! What do you think is going on with our current source of fuel....seriously. Do you think our current fuel source is sustainable? GMFB!

 

And don't get me started on the state of agriculture in America...unless you actually know what you're talking about.

 

 

you are fucking obtuse

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Then again, if everyone were vegetarians, imagine how much more land there would be to grow biofuels.

 

eh? animal production and consumption isn't inherently inefficient

 

Ever watch Andrew Zimmern's show? Maybe we all need to start eating bugs, grubs, and all the weird animal body parts.

[kevbone]

they have issues b/c they are forcing up the price of wheat and other agricultural products. an increase in production of biofuels may lead to food shortage or continued destruction of eco sensitivity land such as rainforest

 

That is an interesting view point…..shortage of food? What about a shortage of US solders fighting in an occupation so the oil companies get rich and the contractors get rich? Which is worse?

[grtmtnchic]

what we're doing isn't working.

 

Umm, actually what we're NOT doing is what isn't working.

 

More efficient cars, people being less wasteful, better city planning/development, better mass transit options, etc.

 

That's all well and good, but our fuel still has to come FROM someplace...primarily middle eastern countries as things are right now. Reducing is a great idea. Better city planning is a great idea. But a more sustainable idea would be to change the type of fuel we use. We still need fuel.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

That is an interesting view point…..shortage of food? What about a shortage of US solders fighting in an occupation so the oil companies get rich and the contractors get rich? Which is worse?

 

Yeah, if we left Iraq, well gee, the fuel prices would go down and never go up again, and everything would be swell.

 

[Hugh Conway]

all the weird animal body parts.

 

tripe :tup:

 

there's plenty of cases of animals being raised in areas that couldn't produce food any other means. that just doesn't fit in the mega agriculture industry map