KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 You're right. It works out so much better for them when they are arrested. Arrested, cited, and released. Oooh, what a deterent! It seems like more of a nuisance and hassle than anything really harmful to them. And enforcement is arbitrary and hardly comprehensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 You're right. It works out so much better for them when they are arrested. Arrested, cited, and released. Oooh, what a deterent! It seems like more of a nuisance and hassle than anything really harmful to them. And enforcement is arbitrary and hardly comprehensive. Thanks for making my point. So why waste the time and money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 You're right. It works out so much better for them when they are arrested. Arrested, cited, and released. Oooh, what a deterent! It seems like more of a nuisance and hassle than anything really harmful to them. And enforcement is arbitrary and hardly comprehensive. Thanks for making my point. So why waste the time and money? Hold on, buddy. My point was that legalizing prostitution does not mean you have happy, wonderful lives for these women, as claimed by one poster in this thread. "they are paid for sex, what could be better?" That's all I am responding to. It's a fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 You're right. It works out so much better for them when they are arrested. Arrested, cited, and released. Oooh, what a deterent! It seems like more of a nuisance and hassle than anything really harmful to them. And enforcement is arbitrary and hardly comprehensive. Thanks for making my point. So why waste the time and money? Hold on, buddy. My point was that legalizing prostitution does not mean you have happy, wonderful lives for these women, as claimed by one poster in this thread. "they are paid for sex, what could be better?" That's all I am responding to. It's a fantasy. Being the voice of reason in this discussion won't get you anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Our laws have only served to make a bunch of other wise fine people criminals. Closer to home: today Seattle news: Link "Man reports 'theft by escort' to police By BRAD WONG P-I REPORTER A Seattle man who hired an escort to "have fun" told police that she stole $170 from him after she went to her car to fetch some condoms. The man, who is in his 50s and lives on Whitman Avenue North near Lake Union, had called the escort after spotting an advertisement in the Feb. 21 edition of The Stranger, a police report filed Thursday said. The woman arrived at his apartment late last month for the rendezvous. He agreed to pay her $150 to "have fun" and $20 to cover her gas. "At some point into the fun," the woman asked the man whether he had condoms, according to the report. Upon hearing that he did not, she said she would get some from her car. As the man waited for her to return, he looked out his window and realized the escort was driving away in a silver car. Since that night, he has called her "numerous times" to get his money back. "But she has not answered or returned his calls," the report said. The man even called The Stranger to inform the newspaper of what happened. The police officer who took the report told the man it is against the law in Seattle and the state of Washington to pay someone for sex. But the man wanted to file a police report in case the woman "was doing this to more of her customers." BTW, I profoundly disagree with the notion that legalizing prostitution eliminates all the baggage for women in this industry. The evidence is that most if not all of these women were abused as children, have low self-esteem, are controlled by others, and turn to drugs and suicide in higher proportions than average. YOU as a horny male might be getting something out of legalization, but don't fool yourself into believing these women would have a "great life". Probably a horrible life that I wouldn't wish on anyone, to be sure, but the fact that the scope for suffering and abuse is dramatically reduced seems to be reason enough to favor legalization over the current state of affairs. There are any number of activities that people can voluntarily engage in for one reason or another that I think are sad and self destructive - but so long as we're talking about consenting adults I don't think there's a moral case to be made for prohibition. I think that there's also a practical case to be made for opposing prohibition of things that that adults do to themselves, or consenting adults do to one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Prohibition was a different situation; yet the same in some ways. The Temperance Society was mostly made of women who, without any power or representation in the political/legal system, had no protection from husbands who became abusive when drinking. This was their only effective way to protect themselves from abuse. This is a moral argument for Prohibition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Probably a horrible life that I wouldn't wish on anyone, to be sure, but the fact that the scope for suffering and abuse is dramatically reduced seems to be reason enough to favor legalization over the current state of affairs. Not a fact - an assumption, a claim, whatever. You guys are in a fantasy world anyways if you think prostitution will be legalized in a country where alcohol was banned for over a decade, and pot is still illegal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 The only thing it's a logical or moral argument for prohibiting is battery of women, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 This was their only effective way to protect themselves from abuse. My grandfather told me that his dad used to whack his mom from time to time when under the influence (this would be in 30's). Then one day when his oldest brother got big enough (at about age 16), and dad whacked mom with his lunch pail after coming home from the mines, splitting her head open, older brother beat the shit out of dad, and destroyed his homemade beer and brandy barrels. That was the end of spousal abuse in that family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 The only thing it's a logical or moral argument for prohibiting is battery of women, actually. In the era we are talking about, that was not even considered. I have a few suggestions on history books that might be interesting to you and would help round your views out a bit (sorry if that sounds condescending--it honestly is not intended that way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Probably a horrible life that I wouldn't wish on anyone, to be sure, but the fact that the scope for suffering and abuse is dramatically reduced seems to be reason enough to favor legalization over the current state of affairs. Not a fact - an assumption, a claim, whatever. You guys are in a fantasy world anyways if you think prostitution will be legalized in a country where alcohol was banned for over a decade, and pot is still illegal I think that you can make the ethical case solely on the distinction between voluntary and coerced activity, irrespective of whether the person in question claims to be happy or not. The physical act of picking fruit on a citrus farm in 2008 probably isn't terribly different from picking cotton on a plantation in 1858 - but the fact that one is voluntary labor and the other was forced is sufficient to distinguish between the two. Agreed that it is all waaaaaaay hypothetical at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I think that you can make the ethical case solely on the distinction between voluntary and coerced activity, ... I would argue that many women are coerced into prostitution and legalization will not change this fact - and not even improve the situation (it could make it worse). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grtmtnchic Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Prohibition was a different situation; yet the same in some ways. The Temperance Society was mostly made of women who, without any power or representation in the political/legal system, had no protection from husbands who became abusive when drinking. This was their only effective way to protect themselves from abuse. This is a moral argument for Prohibition. Well.....there is a whole other side to the prohibition story unrelated to this thread, but what the heck: It had to do with ethanol production and Ford's (successful) attempt to monopolize the automobile industry at the time by completely obliterating the competition (that created an auto to run on ethanol). Ban alcohol = ban ethanol = crush the competition and thus the predominant automobile was Ford's that ran on gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 When a guy like Spitzer build his career on busting crime rings and then patronizes one himself his credability is shot, and his effectiveness in public office goes down, even if his ideas are good. One oh shit will eliminate all the attaboys. On the other side of the same coin that is precisely why Sen. Craig needed to resign; I have no moral judgement on whether he is or isn't gay, fact is his voting record shows that he voted anti-gay and he gets caught soliciting gay sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) You're being facetious, right? Sex scandals, unless they are about men with men, don't seem to hurt men too badly. Look at Bill Clinton! Hmm, I seem to remember he was impeached, and disbarred. You're confusing with deception again: his crime was in lying about it under oath. Edited March 10, 2008 by Dechristo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I think that you can make the ethical case solely on the distinction between voluntary and coerced activity, ... I would argue that many women are coerced into prostitution and legalization will not change this fact - and not even improve the situation (it could make it worse). It is as if no one has noticed that when you ask a gal of any age what she wants to be when she grows up, she NEVER says, "a whore". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I think that you can make the ethical case solely on the distinction between voluntary and coerced activity, ... I would argue that many women are coerced into prostitution and legalization will not change this fact - and not even improve the situation (it could make it worse). It is as if no one has noticed that when you ask a gal of any age what she wants to be when she grows up, she NEVER says, "a whore". Someone claimed that marriage is an institution whose aim is to control women and their "reproductive" rights (i.e. their bodies). I'd argue that prostitution is an even older institution with that exact same goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 The physical act of picking fruit on a citrus farm in 2008 probably isn't terribly different from picking cotton on a plantation in 1858 - but the fact that one is voluntary labor and the other was forced is sufficient to distinguish between the two. I'm not sure that "voluntary" can be defined as something someone does when starving to death is the likely alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grtmtnchic Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 It is as if no one has noticed that when you ask a gal of any age what she wants to be when she grows up, she NEVER says, "a whore". LMFAO!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 So, Arch, I'm confused. Do you think prostitution should be illegal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 It is as if no one has noticed that when you ask a gal of any age what she wants to be when she grows up, she NEVER says, "a whore". LMFAO!!!!! no they say i want to marry a rich guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 The only thing it's a logical or moral argument for prohibiting is battery of women, actually. In the era we are talking about, that was not even considered. I have a few suggestions on history books that might be interesting to you and would help round your views out a bit (sorry if that sounds condescending--it honestly is not intended that way). They'd probably be interesting, and they are probably useful for understanding why a group of women at a particular point in history wanted to ban alcohol - but neither would do anything to make their case for empowering the state to deprive others of the liberty to drink alcohol logically or morally compelling to anyone outside of their troubled relationships. The modern equivalent would be arguing for prohibition of alcohol on the basis of drunk-driving statistics, the children of dead mountaineers banding together to have the state enforce a ban on climbing, etc, etc, etc, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 It is as if no one has noticed that when you ask a gal of any age what she wants to be when she grows up, she NEVER says, "a whore". True, but at a young age, few of us knew the kinds and extent of compromises we would make along the way. We are all whores. We only rationalize the large and small sales of ourselves by our personal credos and perception of cultural acceptance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I think that you can make the ethical case solely on the distinction between voluntary and coerced activity, ... I would argue that many women are coerced into prostitution and legalization will not change this fact - and not even improve the situation (it could make it worse). It is as if no one has noticed that when you ask a gal of any age what she wants to be when she grows up, she NEVER says, "a whore". I can't recall any saying "IT professional" or "waitress" either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 other people probably did say i want to grow up and be a computer geek. the point is that there is no point when any young girl says "hey, i WANT to be a whore" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.