pink Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) well, I see... Google is your friend... no, beacon rock is my friend. Edited January 16, 2008 by pink Quote
pink Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 well, I see... Google is your friend... you should try it sometime. you might avoid asking stupid questions, just saying Quote
Frikadeller Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 yes i do know. used to live at beacon rock. WTF are you doing on the site if you hate rock climbing, did anybody tell you that the mt. hood speculation thread was locked? Ohhh... I see... Only rock climbers are allowed here.... Pfft... I like climbing, just not "rock climbing"... Sorry. I think "rock climbing" is boring. I like climbing, especially "ski mountaineering" but I guess that does not make me "cool" enough to hang out on the internet with hardmen rock climbers like "pink".... Sorry man, I will just fall into a fetal position because of my sorry state of affairs and cry my self to sleep... In 1811, Alexander Ross of the John Jacob Astor expedition called the rock Inoshoack Castle. The rock became known as Castle Rock until 1916, when the United States Board of Geographic Names restored the name back to Beacon Rock. In the early 1900s, the Army Corps of Engineers planned to destroy Beacon Rock with dynamite. Railroad officials opposed the idea because they didn't want the blasting to drop boulders onto the train tracks. Their opposition was enough to get the demolition stopped. Another idea was to use Beacon Rock as a rock quarry. I was aware of this "factoid" of history, but you had to make some sort of "point" out of it... Okie dokie... Whats next? The Bridal Veil lumber company, and their exploits around Larch Mountain? Quote
pink Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 Nah. no demolition occurred, but there where plans. Big plans. Quote
Frikadeller Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 OK... You got me there... They started... But it is still there for you and I to enjoy, right? Quote
pink Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 I was aware of this "factoid" of history, but you had to make some sort of "point" out of it... Okie dokie... Who knows... I don't, do you? Demolition companies? Geologists making a survey? Quote
pink Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 OK... You got me there... They started... But it is still there for you and I to enjoy, right? i thought rockclimbing was boring Quote
Frikadeller Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 OK... You got me there... They started... But it is still there for you and I to enjoy, right? i thought rockclimbing was boring I think it is, but for you it is exciting. I can't wait until it has enough snow on it for me so snowboard down it.... (that will probably never happen) Quote
Frikadeller Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 I know, so in the mean time, I stick to other things, and only "hike" Beacon.... And that is fine with me. Quote
denalidave Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 where is this beacon place? It's not that secret.... There is a trail you can hike to the top... Unless stupid birds are nesting... It's south of Wind Mountain... Actually, you can hike the trail year round but rock climbing is closed about half the year (Feb-July) due to falcon nesting habitat. Beacon is West of Wind Mt, I'd guess about 10 miles west of. Quote
Frikadeller Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 Beacon is West of Wind Mt, I'd guess about 10 miles west of. Well we are both wrong. It is southwest of Wind Mountain... But whatever. Quote
JosephH Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 It isn't moving between now and the weekend if someone want's to try and catch it Friday... Quote
kevbone Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 where is this beacon place? It's not that secret.... There is a trail you can hike to the top... Unless stupid birds are nesting... It's south of Wind Mountain... Actually, you can hike the trail year round but rock climbing is closed about half the year (Feb-July) due to falcon nesting habitat. Beacon is West of Wind Mt, I'd guess about 10 miles west of. Funny how the rock stays open to the hundreds of thousands of hikers/walkers, yet they close the south face to the 50 climbers that climb there every year, due to those “stupid birds”. One could speculate that closing the entire rock to protect these “stupid birds” would be the most beneficial for the birds mating season. But NO……the climbers are scape goats. Oh well….same story every year. Quote
denalidave Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 Beacon is West of Wind Mt, I'd guess about 10 miles west of. Well we are both wrong. It is southwest of Wind Mountain... But whatever. OK, small technicality. But if you drive West on Hwy 14 from Wind Mt you will end up at Beacon Rock. We stand corrected. Quote
denalidave Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 What is so important about Wind Mt.? Nothing but someone brought it up on this thread. Nice hike though. Quote
JosephH Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 Unless stupid birds are nesting... Funny how the rock stays open to the hundreds of thousands of hikers/walkers, yet they close the south face to the 50 climbers that climb there every year, due to those “stupid birds”. One could speculate that closing the entire rock to protect these “stupid birds” would be the most beneficial for the birds mating season. But NO……the climbers are scape goats. Oh well….same story every year. Kevin, at just what point does this tired diatribe yield to reality? Sure, nobody likes that it closes to climbing - hell, David Anderson and the BRSP don't like that it does - it's a friggin' royal pain in the ass for them as well as for us. And how many times does it have to be written that David and the WDFW did try to close the hiking trail as well - but that the legal terms of the transaction creating the BRSP precluded it? WDFW had the choice of burning political capital fighting WSP on an issue or letting it go. They knew they were going to lose that fight to close the trail in the end so chose to let it go - but they did try to close it. No one 'scapegoated' the climbers, period. You know exactly how many routes climb to, past, or traverse Big Ledge - the Peregrine's preferred eyrie - as opposed to the trail which is 140 meters way at it's closest point. The closure is consistent in every respect with, or shorter than, all the other Peregrine closures in the country. Also, there is nothing 'dumb' about the Peregrines - they fucking lay their eggs out in the weather on a bare rock ledge on a verical wall in some of the worst weather the Gorge has to offer. They teach their young how to explode meals out of thin air, and are one of the burliest creatures on Earth. Pretty much no other creature besides mountain goats better represent what it means to get out and survive on one's own on a vertical surface than the Peregrines. And no one despises the fact that the stone closes more than I do - hey, I and a few other nuts actually get out there this time of year every time it's almost dry. But let's not 'scapegoat' the Peregrines because we're asked to time-share with them so these 'dumb [magnificent] birds' can try to reestablish their historic natural range. They are 3/4 of the way there and every single successfully nesting pair is critical to their species succeeding at that goal over the next 15 years. The year-round pairs at Beacon have made it among the most consistently successful eyries in the country which is the reason behind the closure. Again, no one wants it opened more than I do and it has taken four years of the steady investment of a shitload of time and gas (22 days last year at six hours at a shot while you folks were climbing away at Ozone) to re-establish a working relationship with David and the WDFW so that climbers are vested in the process of monitoring the Peregrines' progress and the details of the closures. That has allowed early opens and, if and when the Peregrines ever decide to stop using the South Face eyrie, it will allow either not closing or a very early opening. But - to be excruciatingly clear as to what that means - that means the Peregrines have to not even attempt to nest on Big Ledge in consecutive years based on strict monitoring protocols (which I meet in my monitoring). And contrary to public rumor and myth. That has not yet occured - what has occured is they have failed in three years of attempts on Big Ledge and were successful somewhere nearby in two of those years (we've never been able to pin down where). So where is it all at right now? As of last summer the latest resident Peregrine pair have established themselves high up on the East Face roofs at a point about two o'clock on the Southern/lower of the two main arches that make up the East Face. They have been consistently using this location every visit I've made to Beacon since September. Does this mean we don't have to close? No, they have no track record using this location and certainly have not successfully bred there. They could easily abandon it for Big Ledge starting anytime around the end of the month. We will close, but I will be monitoring them earlier and as heavily as possible this year starting in the second half of next month. If they conclusively don't attempt to use Big Ledge AND are undeniably and verifiably continue using the new East Face location, I will work with David and the WDFW on an much earlier open. Establishing the facts of such a scenario under the monitoring protocol would likely take through April sometime if it actually played out that way. If it doesn't play out that way, then it will be business as usual attempting to either verify the date of any fledging or summarily conclude they have failed to successfully breed altogether (last year's outcome) so we can hopefully open sometime earlier than July 15th. The best possible outcome for this year and next is the new pair continue to use, and successfully fledge at, the East Face location remaining and returning there in spring 2009 without ever attempting to use Big Ledge in either year. But however it plays out this year and next, you folks now have Ozone to get by on until we know for sure what exactly is happening at Beacon. And given how many cars I drive by at Ozone to get to an empty parking lot at Beacon even after it's open, I'd say you have enough going on to keep you in enough climbing until it does. Anyway, that's the whole story on the Peregrines at Beacon so there is no misunderstanding about just what is going on out there this year. Quote
ivan Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 joe, do you have a clif-notes version of the above? i couldn't bring myself to read all of it, but i assume it has the logical statement in there somewhere that bitchign about the birds is like bitching about the weather - i just wish the climbing at the ozone was more similiar to beacon - i didn't feel right at all making the transition last spring... Quote
JosephH Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 No cliff notes - pink has it right, the short version is Ozone. Quote
billcoe Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 What is so important about Wind Mt.? Simple, the easy answer Ken: (William Carlos Williams already covered this, so I'll just copy him. "so much depends upon a red wheel barrow glazed with rain water beside the white chickens." _____________________________________________________________ BTW: Did anyone else catch that up there in Jh's post? Looked like a hint that monitoring help may be appreciated? Or am I reading into that? JH? what say? You do a lot of cold lonely work out there....? Quote
JosephH Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 Bill, as much as I wish it would help - monitoring basically sucks and is hard to do correctly to protocol - but I'm pretty much in rythmn with it at this point. Also, it's taken a few years to get to where David trusts my observations and we have more or less a language established around describing behavior out there. Another part of the deal is the need for consistency and reliability across the seasons which we also have established. If David gets to where he needs more observation sessions, or if I end up being in ABQ too much then, yeah, we'd probably want to deal with the hassle of spinning up another person, but for now it's cool and I can cover it. However, I do very much appreciate your suggesting it. I guess part of the deal is it is a lot of time and effort on everyone's part - mine, David's, the BRSP staff, Lisa Lance at WSP - to deal with all this on the up and up and it sure would be easier if people could hold on to the actual situation out there. From my perspective nothing else is really required from folks other than a bit of respect for both the birds and this admittedly painful process. But it is what it is and I am trying to deal with it as best I can to see that the rock is open every single day it possibly can under the circumstances we have all been dealt. So anyway, thanks again for the hint regardless... Quote
pink Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 i've been monitoring the birds for years on the "beacon rock web cam". Quote
JosephH Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 P.S. For those that didn't hear, BRSP Ranger John Ernster has moved on to greener pastures up north where he's now a head ranger. As of this week we have a new Ranger I haven't met who I believe is named Ben. Will keep you posted once I've had a chance to meet him and learn more about his background and perspective. Candidates go through a pretty rigorous local hiring process and BRSP Head Ranger Erik Plunkett has gone out of his way so far to hire folks who will are willing to work with climbers to ensure Beacon always remains a [trad] climbing area. Quote
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