Republican or Democrat...

[archenemy]

So what is the alternate suggestion? We just ask nicely and say pretty please? When did we become such pussies?

 

Yes, actually it does seem to be what all the fuss is about.

 

The other things we apparently do are sleep deprivation, long interrogations, threatening detainees that they'll never see their family again, etc. All psychological stuff. Some physical discomfort (without permanent damage).

 

OTOH we kow-tow to Muslims at Gitmo, giving them Korans, letting them pray 5 times a day according to their practices, and feeding them according to their dietary restrictions.

I have a hard time calling it humilitation and torture when folks use these techniques. Now, wearing a bomb into a public place, flying airplanes full of people into buildings full of people, and gassing subways--that is torture.

[Seahawks]

So what is the alternate suggestion? We just ask nicely and say pretty please? When did we become such pussies?

 

Yes, actually it does seem to be what all the fuss is about.

 

The other things we apparently do are sleep deprivation, long interrogations, threatening detainees that they'll never see their family again, etc. All psychological stuff. Some physical discomfort (without permanent damage).

 

OTOH we kow-tow to Muslims at Gitmo, giving them Korans, letting them pray 5 times a day according to their practices, and feeding them according to their dietary restrictions.

 

It kind of funny when you want to ship them back to there country of orgin they all of sudden want to stay in Gitmo.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

So what is the alternate suggestion? We just ask nicely and say pretty please? When did we become such pussies?

 

Yes, actually it does seem to be what all the fuss is about.

 

The other things we apparently do are sleep deprivation, long interrogations, threatening detainees that they'll never see their family again, etc. All psychological stuff. Some physical discomfort (without permanent damage).

 

OTOH we kow-tow to Muslims at Gitmo, giving them Korans, letting them pray 5 times a day according to their practices, and feeding them according to their dietary restrictions.

I have a hard time calling it humilitation and torture when folks use these techniques. Now, wearing a bomb into a public place, flying airplanes full of people into buildings full of people, and gassing subways--that is torture.

 

When I think torture, I think of beating people with truncheons, the rack, the Iron Maiden, pulling out finger nails, applying electric shocks, dislocating joints, burning, scarring, etc. Waterboarding is nowhere near this level, but I'm not comfortable with that as an interrogation technique.

[archenemy]

It should be an interview technique for WAMU

[KaskadskyjKozak]

It should be an interview technique for WAMU

 

I hear they use it at Micro$oft. :-)

[Dechristo]

or a primer for marriage

[tvashtarkatena]

Nothing ambiguous about it. Just a fact. You either need to break open Webster's or the Civics book.

 

Bullshit! A couple dozen congressmen put this letter together. They represent the USA and federal authority. What they did is what I'd expect from Stalinist Russia or Goebbels. And YOU would AGREE if Republican congressman had done this.

 

Oh, Jesus, another precious quotation. What is the maximum amount of posts KKK can wait until he dredges up a Stalin comparison? Smoking ban? STALINISM! Leash law? Yosef would have LOVED THAT!

 

It was a letter, for Christ's sake, not a pogrom, that has backfired spectacularly, no less. Get over it.

[ClimbingPanther]

When I think torture, I think of beating people with truncheons, the rack, the Iron Maiden, pulling out finger nails, applying electric shocks, dislocating joints, burning, scarring, etc. Waterboarding is nowhere near this level, but I'm not comfortable with that as an interrogation technique.

 

that's funny, when I think of torture, I just read a few of your posts

[KaskadskyjKozak]

that's funny, when I think of torture, I just read a few of your posts

 

then click on the "ignore user" feature, shit-for-brains.

[Seahawks]

When I think torture, I think of beating people with truncheons, the rack, the Iron Maiden, pulling out finger nails, applying electric shocks, dislocating joints, burning, scarring, etc. Waterboarding is nowhere near this level, but I'm not comfortable with that as an interrogation technique.

 

that's funny, when I think of torture, I just read a few of your posts

 

No, you must be thinking of kevboner.

[Dechristo]

and your thoughts are allayed?

[ClimbingPanther]

i believe you misspelled, it's "a laid," and yes, I think about it every 7 seconds like all men

[archenemy]

and some women

[tvashtarkatena]

Actually, psychological torture can do much more severe and longer lasting damage to an individual than many 'classic' forms of physical torture. The brain is an organ that can be damaged, just like any other, only the brain can be severely damaged by non-physically traumatic stimuli, unlike other organs.

 

For those of you who believe Guantanamo Bay is a hotel/resort for terrorists, here's a summary of a report, submitted to the administration in February 2004, compiled by the International Committee of the Red Cross on treatment of detainees in U.S. military custody:

 

"We have seen evidence of federal government employees engaging in acts such as soaking a prisoner's hand in alcohol and lighting it on fire, administering electric shocks, subjecting prisoners to repeated sexual abuse and assault, including sodomy with a bottle, raping a juvenile prisoner, kicking and beating prisoners in the head and groin, putting lit cigarettes inside a prisoner's ear, force-feeding a baseball to a prisoner, chaining a prisoner hands-to-feet in a fetal position for 24 hours without food or water or access to a toilette, and breaking a prisoner's shoulders."

 

It's not just about waterboarding, folks. I would argue that the administration has only benefitted from the 'waterboarding debate', for all the misunderstanding it generates on forums like this one, and because it diverts attention from the much more brutal practices that are actually going on at Guantanamo and our secret CIA prisons abroad.

 

The report was classified by the administration. I'm not sure if it still is. I did find a heavily redacted copy online here:

 

February 2004 ICRC report

Edited October 19, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[ClimbingPanther]

"We have seen evidence of federal government employees engaging in acts such as soaking a prisoner's hand in alcohol and lighting it on fire, administering electric shocks, subjecting prisoners to repeated sexual abuse and assault, including sodomy with a bottle, raping a juvenile prisoner, kicking and beating prisoners in the head and groin, putting lit cigarettes inside a prisoner's ear, force-feeding a baseball to a prisoner, chaining a prisoner hands-to-feet in a fetal position for 24 hours without food or water or access to a toilette, and breaking a prisoner's shoulders."

 

how do you know it wasn't consensual? 8D

bondage.... mmmmmmmm

[chucK]

Hey KkkKkk what do you think about stuffing someone hands-tied, headfirst into a sleeping bag, then sitting on his chest and punching him until he dies? I guess we have not heard the president saying, "we do not murder."

 

As far as psychological torture, what about Jose Padilla subjected to years of sensory deprivation. That could fuck you up more than pulling out fingernails ever would.

Here's the picture of when they brought Padilla out of his cell for dental work. I'm sure he needs those blinders and ear-muffs for security reasons, eh?

And he was subjected to all of this before he was even tried in a court. Scary shit.

 

Face it. We've got a torture operation going on out in Guantanamo, and a an unknown number of secret prisons, as well as a program that sends guys to places where we know they will be tortured (probably in ways that even you would agree is torture.

 

It's amazing that you call a bunch of Senators publicly condemning an individual's words Stalinism, and on the same day defend our government's detention and torture of individuals with no legal due process.

 

Calling Rush names = Stalinism!

Bush running a Gulag = uncomfortable?

 

Fuck!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Hey KkkKkk what do you think about stuffing someone hands-tied, headfirst into a sleeping bag, then sitting on his chest and punching him until he dies? I guess we have not heard the president saying, "we do not murder."

 

As far as psychological torture, what about Jose Padilla subjected to years of sensory deprivation. That could fuck you up more than pulling out fingernails ever would.

Here's the picture of when they brought Padilla out of his cell for dental work. I'm sure he needs those blinders and ear-muffs for security reasons, eh?

 

As I said before, I pretty much agree with what McCain has said about torture. I oppose it, including the things you CLAIM happen. Problem is, you guys have cried wolf for 8 years, and, sorry, I don't believe it just because YOU say so. If it is happening and can be proved, then somebody needs to be punished for it. Indeed our next president should ensure we reverse this precedent - assuming it is true. Somehow I doubt that will happen. You can thank all the shrill Bush hatred and vitriol-spouters for my lack of faith in their veracity and willingness to follow-through on anything they claim to care about.

[JosephH]

Nobels and nasty letters from Congress are irrelevant to this conversation. Torture on the otherhand is quite on topic. The issue is, however, do you believe the Constitution of the United States grants the President the right to "supersede the laws written by Congress"?

 

If so, exactly what limits exist on Executive power once you breach that constitutional bulwark? I can find none and as a result believe the threat and spector of an imperial Executive is no fantasy, but rather an all-to-real constitutional malignancy just waiting for an opportunity. In fact, the operating styles of both this administration and Putin's seem to be converging. Scary business as far as I'm concerned.

[chucK]

Yeah, but you'll still label calling Rush some bad names Stalinism.

 

 

...and why should it be up to our next president to put a stop to it? Why shouldn't Bush do it?

 

Edited October 19, 2007 by chucK

[sexual_chocolate]

anyone see frontline the other night?

 

it's up to the next pres, because bush WON'T do it.

[sexual_chocolate]

along with the congress.... how could they ever justify to themselves confirming an ag who has said what this nominee has said? congress has been just as responsible for this erosion as bush etal.

[chucK]

Well you could probably justify it by deciding that the country really does need an AG and a functioning Dept. of Justice. Though this guy has perhaps shown his true colors, he's better than Alberto G and probably going to be better than anybody who is an interim appt.

 

You never know. He may have gotten the talking-to last night by Bushco about his testimony yesterday (though he denies this), and now he's just fibbing a bit so Bushco doesn't pull him. Then when he gets in, he'll really stick it to those fuckers.

[kevbone]

then somebody needs to be punished for it.

 

 

Pretty hard to punish someone for it when the president or anyone he deems necessary to fall under his executive privilege umbrella. What we have here is the lack of checks and balances. He has thrown out Habeas Corpus.

 

KK are trying to say none of the documented torture is not going on? Wake up friend……soon it will be you. Where does it end?

 

[sexual_chocolate]

"Functioning Dept. of "Justice""?

 

Priceless.

[JosephH]

I agree, but the BushCo steamroller still has some steam in it before the elections - dem Democrats are still embarassingly timid because of it. Pelosi and Reid's strategy clearly remains to basically give the President whatever he wants - within reason - and let him hang himself and the Republicans along with him. It is not an unwise gambit given how much can still go vastly wrong for the administration between now and the '08 elections.