Partners desired

[Matt]

Lambone,

Yeah, Scout would make a great rope gun-- he's always pulling at the lead, though he's a bit of a hangdogger.

[roboclimber]

Man some of you people crack me up. I can't sleep so I"m up reading this Cascade stuff. I'm leaving on vacation today to Montana to hang out in some mountains there. Got to chill, away from the crowds here. Anyway, hey Lisa. Dogs are fun to hike and climb with. Sometimes more fun than the people I climb with. The problem with dogs is their paws don't hold the rope well when they belay. Back in 1994 I climbed Mount Baker with my trusty Yellow Lab Dusty. To this day I cant believe she made it but she did. She was a real trooper back then. She needed help once near the top at a place where it got a little steep. Roped her up for about 20 feet. I did feel sorry for her when snow started balling up on her paws. I now hike with Timber. He is smaller and very agile. Lisa lets bag a peak sometime.

[lisa]

roboclimber, just took my dog up Mt. Larabee yesturday, I think it was a bit much, but she made it, kind of freaked out on the summit scramble though. I think it's just a notch over safety for both dogs and those around when there is loose rock just waiting to lurch at those below.

Alpinek said he heard there are sun glasses for dogs out there somewhere, worth investigating for sure. Sounds rediculous, but for all the winter and spring skiing days, let alone summer climbs on snow, I don't believe a dogs retina varies that much from our mere mortal selves. The question remains...how long will they last on the dog?

Up for a dog friendly climb/hike anytime...is it 4:20 already? Behave yourselves ruthless climbers. \"/

[lisa]

Hi Matt, in response to populated areas such as Muir. It's more to the tune of, no dogs in national parks, kind of has a ring to it no? We have three amazing national parks in Wa. before I owned a dog, I would have thought nothing of it, I have to admit it would be nice to take them along.

[Alpine_Tom]

I've taken my dog Max (actually, my in-law's dog) up Pilchuck, Glacier Peak, Sloan Peak (he didn't summit) Forgotten, Shuksan, as well as smaller outings. And, our westie made it to the top of Pilchuck in a blizzard this spring! Max is a yellow lab-coyote cross (I think, he was a stray) and I've worried too about snowblindness. He doesn't seem to mind (well, he doesn't squint.)

I asked a vet about it, he didn't know, but didn't seem very worried about it. It'd be really good to know if there was anything to worry about, and if so anything that could be done about it. Max clearly loves climbing and being on snow, but I hate to think I'm hurting his vision.

[specialed]

I'm no vet, but I guess that it really depends on the breed. A "wilder" breeds such as a malamute, husky, and some shepards that are closely related to wolves and have been bread for their physical ability not looks, do better in rugged terrain and adverse conditions, like sun and snow. But it gets kind of blurry with breeds like labs that are bread for temperment, looks, and athletic ability. Probably depends on the individual dog too.

I snuck my two dogs up to Ranier NP last winter for some bc skiing. Noone seemed to mind but I don't think I'll be doing it again because it was kind of sketchy trying to avoid the rangers and pretend we didn't see the numerous no dogs sigs. Its probably not worth the risk of getting caught and paying the hefty fine when there's other places to go.

[Beck]

For all you dog owners out there, there is a company that manufactures doggie goggles. I saw them in a copy of "Mountainfreak" magazine, if anyone wants that info leave a note on this thread and I'll see if I can find the company name. They looked like cool bugz type goggles.

As an annendunm to Matt and dogs in National Parks, Nat'l Parks are considered "nature preserves" and dogs spread disease to animal populations without coming into direct contact with them (via feces) as well as (potentially) threaten and harrass wildlife and visitors. There's a real good reason those volunteer patrollers waved you off the mountain and to all other dog owners out there, yes, no dogs in any backcountry area of any national park anywhere in US.

[Kyle]

Doggles- check it out. Nice idea, but I don't think I could train my dog to wear these... she'd paw them off right away.

http://www.doggles.com/main.html

[hollyclimber]

I don't know...you can train dogs to get used to a lot of things. I think I might try these. If I buy them now and get Dagen used to them slowly, with lots of food given whenever the goggles are around, it might work. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

I have asked my vet about these things, (altitude, snowblindness and sunburn) and they all seem pretty clueless about it (I have asked 3 vets). Most people, including the vets, don't do this kind of stuff with their dogs I guess.

[specialed]

Yeah the dogpark is probably the pinnacle of most dog's existance.

[Matt]

Yes, I know nat'l parks are nature preserves ergo are special and should be saved for future generations. In the spirit of conservation I would like to see pack animals banned from parks for in my experience they do much more damage than dogs-- though I admit more people have dogs than horses/mules so this can be disputed.

If parks are to be preserved then we should keep cars, especially RVs, out of our nat'l parks. Until this is done I will not feel that the ban on dogs is fair. An army of dogs do nowhere near the damage a single RV does.

 

[nolanr]

Ditto on the pack animals. Someone posted about fearing for rockfall hitting their dog at cragging areas. Sometimes it works the other way around. I met a boxer named T.J. at Mt. Erie who was quite the boulder trundler. He would bark at it and go nuts until he had rolled it downhill from him. The owners also said he could climb up to about 5.4. Any 5.12 climbing pooches out there? And you know where this thread is going next--"Can my dog hook up w/ your dog, they would have such cute puppies."

[hollyclimber]

Yeah, I know that dog TJ. He does the same thing at Little Si. He stands really close to the edge, then he purposefully trundles a rock over, then he watches it all the way down. Then, he does it again! TJ was the first dog that I ever saw with a pack on, so the good thing is I can credit him with inspiration to get a packing dog. (TJ carries the rope...thats pretty appealing!).

[Beck]

To the dogowner guys and girls out here following this thread, dogs CAN do more damage in a park than an RV. There is a very common bug dogs live with, I believe its canine parvovirus, if this is transmitted to deer or other types of large mammals the whole population is in danger as it is fatal to these types of hoofed animals.

Would you want to know it was your dogs' shit that killed the elk herd outside the park and not the golf course development?

That may sound extreme, but as an example, on Isle Royale they had huge decreases in the moose herd in the eighties when some self rightous dog owners figured the dog ban didn't apply to THEIR dogs! The moose contracted this fatal illness from the dogs and DIED FROM CARLESS PETOWNERS NOT RESPECTING THE RULES IN NATIONAL PARKS!!

And yes, too many roads/RV's in the National Parks, has anyone seen the highway overpass that's built in Yellowstone near Old Faithful?

 

[erik]

my bro john has a malmute that when it was a pup contracted parvo. after about $1500 in dog bills she was healthy. and she was vaccinated. you cannot tell me that all dogs as safe with vaccination. it would be like saying all humans are safe from tetnous and other diseases/virus..blah....

dog aonly really belong two places at home and on a leash. people who bring dogs the crags to tie them up are not good dog owners. why don't i tie you up for the afternoon. and people who let their pooches wonder are also not good dog ownbers as well, be more responsible, you should consider other users then yourself, dogs might be cute and happy and a real pleasure to pet when they are at home, but when it comes to new territory they tend to aggresive, to protect their new found kingdom.

get real and leave dogs at home. or stay home yourself. what about people who are allergic to dogs and other animals, now you are jeperdizing them.

and i am sure everyone's dog is the best in the world. but even the best sometime fail to perform. (ask drul!)

[This message has been edited by erik (edited 07-05-2001).]

[Beck]

Canine Parvovirus may not be the virus that spreads to other species, I don't have the specifics memorized or anything.

[Yossarian]

Another Reason to Leave Fido at Home:

Halfway up the main wall at Index I saw a dinner table sized flake come loose. At the same time there was a golden retriever dorkin' around at the base. It looked like one of those roadrunner cartoons where the coyote gets smushed...oh the horror, the horror...

Actually the rock missed the dog, but only by a few feet.

 

[specialed]

Erik, I have had many many experiences with dogs and climbing (crags and other). I have never seen one incident that would lead me to believe that dogs and cragging are incompatible. While some dogs are worse than others and can be territtorial and aggressive, a responsible dog owner should know that and take appropriate action. Its too bad if you or Dru has had bad experiences with dogs at the crags - but does one bad dog or their owner mean that every dog is bad? Its been my experience that people who don't like dogs are mean-spirited assholes. I'm sure there's exceptions, and maybe your it. I wouldn't judge you personally becuase you don't like dogs, so don't conclude that all dogs are territorial and aggressive because that's just not true.

And what do you mean dogs should only be at home or on a leash. There are plenty of times when it is appropriate to let dogs run free. I can't believe you or anyone would actually believe that. And even if you did bring your dog to the crag and tied them up, what's wrong with that? Most dogs would rather do that than sit around at home. And how is a dog sitting in the great outdoors really going to affect someones allergies? Thats a huge load of horseshit.

If you knew anything about dogs, which you obviously don't, you'd know that dogs can be aggressive and territorial in the places they a. live, and b. eat. Dogs generally won't consider that crag as a "kingdom", that title would be reserved for their home.

Its too bad you don't realize how terrific the companionship of a dog can be. But if I want to take my well-behaved dog to the crag and its legal I sure as hell am going to even if it pisses off the stone-hearted dog haters like you who, thank god, are few and far between.

[This message has been edited by specialed (edited 07-05-2001).]

[erik]

hmmmm,

i am a dog hater??? wonder when i said that?! probably never!

i don't like cats.

sure there are good ones and bad ones, but it is not the publics job to deal or determine that. if all dogs are so great then why is there soo mnay dog free zones in public? did you know all dogs within a washington state park must be on a leash and under owner control at all times.

this includes index town walls(wenberg s.p.)

exit 38 (easton lk s.p.)

peshastin pinnacles s.p.

beacon rock s.p.

and i am sure others.

how can you be in control of your animal if you are climbing? oh wait is he now tied up?

hmmm............

[willstrickland]

quote:

---

Originally posted by specialed:

While some dogs are worse than others and can be territtorial and aggressive, a responsible dog owner should know that and take appropriate action. Its too bad if you or Dru has had bad experiences with dogs at the crags - but does one bad dog or their owner mean that every dog is bad?

And what do you mean dogs should only be at home or on a leash. There are plenty of times when it is appropriate to let dogs run free. And even if you did bring your dog to the crag and tied them up, what's wrong with that?

---

Gotta disagree on a few things.

Responsible owner is the key word. The closest I've ever come to a fist fight at the crags was at the Manure Pile in Yosemite because of a dog. The pooch, tied up mind you, approached me on a long leash while I was retrieving my pack from the base of nutcracker. He was about three inches from my leg so I assumed he was friendly, lowered my hand slowly, open-palmed to let him sniff before I tried to pet him. Next thing I know my partner is saying "Dude, watch out he's a little pissed" and then I notice the fucker is bristling and baring teeth. As I withdraw my hand and step back he lunges at me and snaps at my hand. His owner then goes "oh, he seems friendly, but he's really not, don't mess with him".

Uh, excuse me? Needless to say after about three seconds of thought (hmm it's illegal for this dog to be here, I didn't approach him, I'm trying to retrieve my pack so I can't avoid his "area", the owner never warned me or called his dog, owner never apologized), I launched a tirade. I'll spare you the details, but if he hadn't had a leader on belay at the time I would have been swinging...and I'm not an especially excitable guy.

I love dogs, have owned three wonderful dogs that I loved with all my heart. I have also run into a couple of problems with dogs, mainly because the trails near crag bases are very narrow and the dogs are typically tied up right next to the trail. I've run across plenty of dog shit on crag trails, and I've seen at least four dog fights at crags. I think dogs should be allowed to run free, just not at the crag. There are crags where dogs are not a problem, but they seem to create issues. Most dogs are cool, but it only takes one...and most people think their own dog is cool regardless of reality.

If you want to tie your dog up away from the trail so he can be outside, great, that's better than leaving him cooped up in the house. I don't currently own a dog because I feel it wouldn't be right to leave him at home during the day while I'm working and then leave him at home on the weekend because I'm traveling and climbing. It's not a whole lot different from having a child...been bitten by one of those little fuckers too

[Christopher]

Lisa-

Is this the same Gal who was at Seven Finger Jack two weeks ago with your dog Shasta?

[lisa]

That was me, and Shasta was cool and friendly as always..tell these guys not every dog is vicious. Nothing like a cold one after a long day eh? It was cool meeting you guys, did you go back this past weekend? I'm heading into Glacier peak this weekend, leaving tomorrow...anybody game? Thanks for the emergency coffee!

[rperitore]

Hey Lisa whats going on? I do quite a bit of climbing on and around the weekends and pretty much any time in between. Mostly do ski mountaineering stuff (like to ski what I climb) but also starting to get into just walking or glissading down..had a great glissade down the steeper part of the upper sehale glacier last weekend..felt like I was doin about 80,,,yee haw. anyway I think Im heading out next WED THU FRI. going to try to do Maude, then over to Chiwawa, and finally up to North Star, wont be skiing but should still be a good trip. Lets go climb sometime.

[specialed]

I agree thats way lame and irresponsible of that dude in Yosemite. If your dogs an asshole leave him at home. Fortunatly, most dogs I've encountered in the outdoors are way cool because they get out a lot and have cool owners. Erik, whats your point? I respect leash laws at Wash. State parks (except Index because its really not enforced at all). But I don't see a big problem with dogs at crags that we need to ban dogs or make stiffer leash laws.

If your dog is active and hyper, run him before you get to the crag to he'll be chill when he's there and you can tie him up. Whats the big deal? If he can't handle it, maybe he should stay home. I don't think its wrong to tie a dog up at a crag if its an enforced law - like at Smith.

You didn't say you hated dogs, but you naziesque comment dogs should be at home or on a leash, is a little less than warm and friendly.

[erik]

ez with the slurs bro, calling ma nazi is not cool at all. especailly over a debate about dogs.

maybe we need to grid bolt the lower 3 feet of every crag so there are good anchor points for everyone's dogs.

still man i know you are going to bring your dog, you know i am not going to like it. i am non-confontational though if someones sweet poochy deciedes to violate me or my crew or gear then a swift kick shall solve the problem. back on the farm where we grew up dogs were not mommy's little pets but work animals. sure they provide companionship, but i think someone could argue that television provides companionship too! anyones' kids get babysat by the tv?

then again the only time i have a good conversation with a dog was after a 1/2 rack and the next morning she wasn't that hot!