Voting

[selkirk]

just finished a bottle glen fiddich I think? 12 year old something or other.

 

I have no idea what the differences between good whiskeys are, but it sure was tasty goin down

[sirwoofalot]

personally, I prefer good whiskey.

 

Vodka for me please.

[archenemy]

I think we need to get back to the original question of voting privileges. (I have not read all 5 pages of this thread.)

Coming from the moderately right wing point of view I say it is a bad, a VERY bad idea.

Voting privileges are extended to every US citizen over the age of 18. These privileges can be revoked for various reasons such as a dishonorable discharge form military service, or I think convicted felons are not allowed to vote, but may have their privileges retuned, not so sure on the convicted felon issue.

My point is this. To revoke voting privileges based on source of income opens up a Pandora’s Box that should remain close.

If we can revoke voting privileges based on the source of income then we can do revoke on other issues.

I am surprised this suggestion might come from the right. I would expect it to come from the left because the left wing using the ACLU has manipulated the courts to write legislation.

 

OOPs, there I go getting off the issue of voting privileges.

 

 

 

Thank you for getting us back on topic.....you make some very valid points.

 

Would I be wrong in thinking that it is a conflict of interest to be able to vote only were the gravy train is coming from? How does that better our country?

 

50% of a two party democracy is voting people out, or voting for more money for me.

Ours is not a perfect system, so it does need to be continually tweaked. However, we must show prudence on how and where to tweak our system to make it work well.

We SHOULD vote for what we feel is best for America, and we should our choices for our leaders accordingly.

However, there will be those who vote for whoever is going to fatten their own pocketbook. That can not be helped. I guess if we disallow ALL those whose income source is the government then we are saying ALL whose income source is from the government are only fattening their own pocket books. AND it might be true that all whose income source is from the government are not thinking about what is best for America, however, once we open the door to revoke their voting privileges, then we will have tweaked the system and the repercussions will be far reaching. More that I am willing to risk.

 

I suppose your voting privledge would only go away while you are on a govy check.....once you stand on your own feet again....you get to vote again....

 

In hindsight and after the non sprayer commentary.....it does sound like a fairly fool hardy endeavor.

 

I just came out of a meeting with a lawyer. In that meeting I asked him, “What is the difference between a right and a privilege?” His answer was as I thought; a right can not be revoked where as a privilege can. So I asked about the right to vote, and if is it a right or a privilege. He pulled a copy of the constitution and showed me at least two amendments on the RIGHT to vote. Voting is clearly a right. It would take a constitutional amendment to revoke that right by a specific group of people.

However, amendments are extremely vague in order to allow for interpretation by the court and legislation. Therefore if we were to revoke the voting privileges of one group for say their primary source of income was from the government, then it would be very easy to extend that to say someone who uses public lands for personal adventures such as climbing.

 

However, the more important point he brought up was the original spirit of our constitution was to protect the people from a federal government that might be to strong.

 

I feel revoking voting privileges of any group of people would be going against the original spirit of our constitution.

Sorry, but I am a bit confused here. You start out saying voting is a right, but then switch to calling it a privledge. I think I understand that it's a right. But how can it be that it is taken away from felons? Then, it couldn't be a right, right?

[kevbone]

 

I just came out of a meeting with a lawyer. In that meeting I asked him, “What is the difference between a right and a privilege?” His answer was as I thought; a right can not be revoked where as a privilege can.

 

So if you are a convicted felon you get your rights revoked? So in that circumstance it is a privilege! Not a right.

 

[rob]

 

 

Doesn't the 14th ammendment give states the power to take away to right to vote for commiting rebellion or other crimes?

Edited July 20, 2007 by robmcdan

[KaskadskyjKozak]

just finished a bottle glen fiddich I think? 12 year old something or other.

 

I have no idea what the differences between good whiskeys are, but it sure was tasty goin down

 

Glenfiddich is very popular, but my recollection of it is that it's not much better than a good 12-year old blended. There's a lot of better single malts out there. Which one depends on taste (from lighter body ones with almost no peatiness or smokiness to hardcore Islay's).

[archenemy]

 

Doesn't the 14th ammendment give states the power to take away to right to vote for commiting rebellion or other crimes?

I'll take a look right now--this is very interesting. I've never thought much about the general right to vote, so I am not very knowledgable.

[archenemy]

It doesn't seem to say anything like that, but this looks like a catch:

 

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;

 

So the "due process of law" sort of leaves things open. What are your thoughts?

[sirwoofalot]

You are coming at me to fast. I can not compose on line.

 

First lets go back to is voting a right or a privilege. Then I will go off line and compose my thoughts on this new question.

 

First of all I am not a lawyer. At first I implied that voting is a privilege, as I have always thought it was. However, the 26th amendment clear sate voting is a right.

 

Amendment 26 - Voting Age Set to 18 Years. Ratified 7/1/1971. History

1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

 

However, the constitution is extremely vague, in many areas and that allows for interpretation by our courts.

According to this lawyer dude voting is a right and not a privilege even though it can be revoked for dishonorable discharge from the military and for convicted felons.

 

[selkirk]

just finished a bottle glen fiddich I think? 12 year old something or other.

 

I have no idea what the differences between good whiskeys are, but it sure was tasty goin down

 

Glenfiddich is very popular, but my recollection of it is that it's not much better than a good 12-year old blended. There's a lot of better single malts out there. Which one depends on taste (from lighter body ones with almost no peatiness or smokiness to hardcore Islay's).

 

Any good recommendations for a novice?

[kevbone]

Voting rights

 

 

And if it is a right.....why do I have to register?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

just finished a bottle glen fiddich I think? 12 year old something or other.

 

I have no idea what the differences between good whiskeys are, but it sure was tasty goin down

 

Glenfiddich is very popular, but my recollection of it is that it's not much better than a good 12-year old blended. There's a lot of better single malts out there. Which one depends on taste (from lighter body ones with almost no peatiness or smokiness to hardcore Islay's).

 

Any good recommendations for a novice?

 

do you want something light or full-bodied? peaty? smoky?

 

 

[selkirk]

Yes please. Probably leaning towards full-bodied, don't know that i could recognize peaty or smoky yet, but always willing to try. How about 1 of each?

 

[sirwoofalot]

It doesn't seem to say anything like that, but this looks like a catch:

 

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;

 

So the "due process of law" sort of leaves things open. What are your thoughts?

 

14th Amendment

 

2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

There are many vague points left open in our constitution. But the 14th amendment in section 2, as I copied and pasted above, implies that the right to vote can be revoked.

As to what exactly is “due process” again is the vagueness or our constitution.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

 

[tvashtarkatena]

just finished a bottle glen fiddich I think? 12 year old something or other.

 

I have no idea what the differences between good whiskeys are, but it sure was tasty goin down

 

Try Pendleton Canadian Whiskey if you like smooooooooooth.

[sirwoofalot]

Voting rights

 

 

And if it is a right.....why do I have to register?

 

Voting is a right. Absolute. When I referred to at as a privilege I was wrong.

 

As to why we need to register to vote? Well, um, I never really thought about that.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Yes please. Probably leaning towards full-bodied, don't know that i could recognize peaty or smoky yet, but always willing to try. How about 1 of each?

 

For full-bodied I drink Laphroaig 15 year. It's hard core though. And I'm not in the mood for it much now that it's summer. Although with the weather today... I've never had the Laphroaig 10 which is cheaper. It would be less smooth and a bit harsher than the 15.

 

A nice light one is Glenlivet 15 year, oak aged. You could try the regular Glenlivet 12 year which is similar. They sell that in the little bottles so you could try one real cheap.

 

In the end you might like Glenfiddich better, who knows. I just didn't think it was as good as other stuff I've tried.

 

There are lots of web sites with ratings/opinions. Here's one:

http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh/scotch.html

[archenemy]

You are coming at me to fast. I can not compose on line.

 

First lets go back to is voting a right or a privilege. Then I will go off line and compose my thoughts on this new question.

 

First of all I am not a lawyer. At first I implied that voting is a privilege, as I have always thought it was. However, the 26th amendment clear sate voting is a right.

 

Amendment 26 - Voting Age Set to 18 Years. Ratified 7/1/1971. History

1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

 

However, the constitution is extremely vague, in many areas and that allows for interpretation by our courts.

According to this lawyer dude voting is a right and not a privilege even though it can be revoked for dishonorable discharge from the military and for convicted felons.

Sorry 'bout that--I can get the Figures of Fury typing thing going.

No problem on not being a lawyer--they don't make any legal decisions anyway so it really doesn't matter. Plus, no one likes them.

As for the Constitution being vague--it sounds pretty clear in the case you quoted. The states can't take away your voting rights on the account of age. Period. But, this doesn't address the issues at hand: felons, dishonorably discharged people (I didn't know they couldn't vote?), and the proposed group--welfare recipients. So finding the spot that says that the gov't can take away a person's right to vote for whatever reason would be helpful.

If anyone knows where this might be written, it would be interesting to read...

[archenemy]

Voting rights

 

 

And if it is a right.....why do I have to register?

 

Voting is a right. Absolute. When I referred to at as a privilege I was wrong.

 

As to why we need to register to vote? Well, um, I never really thought about that.

You register so they can keep track of you. You know, no voting twice, no voting if you are 14. etc.

[selkirk]

mmmmmm, going to have to stop at the store on the way home.

 

 

 

 

Fingers of Fury huh? Is that reserved for people on your good side or your bad side?

[archenemy]

Well, I'm left handed.

[sirwoofalot]

Voting rights

 

 

And if it is a right.....why do I have to register?

 

Voting is a right. Absolute. When I referred to at as a privilege I was wrong.

 

As to why we need to register to vote? Well, um, I never really thought about that.

You register so they can keep track of you. You know, no voting twice, no voting if you are 14. etc.

 

Yeah, daa.

It is official; I used my brain way to much today if I could not answer that question.

I need to do some work.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Fingers of Furry?

 

Cut back on the red meat.

[kevbone]

I love threads that have two topics going at the same time.

[underworld]

three topics...if you count the topic of multi-topicing a thread