aid leading Q&A

[IceIceBaby]

For leading aid what is your prefer technique using 3 or 4 aiders also what is you standard hooks selection and one last one is, removable bolts do they work in drilled bat holes

 

Just in:

What is the general vote toward Jumars or CMI?

 

[ 05-01-2002, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

[freeclimb9]

I like to use four aiders --two sets of two. The hook selection depends on the route. And bat-hook holes are far too shallow to put a removable bolt in. Rather than buy the removable-bolt specialty item, sliders will fit into empty bolt holes if you come across them.

[erik]

after battling with the aiders question and trying it all out.... i came to the conclusion that two is easiest. you have less crap to get in your way. and it speeds things up. four aiders makes it almost confortable to mess with your placement. is slows you down.

 

3 is a little better then four, but still all that extra crap is annoying and slow.

 

hooks

 

bd talon

couple cam hooks

and a larger one

 

and only if the hole is deep enough

[Crack]

...i've heard that nixxing an aider mid pitch and leaving yourself only one is the way to go, super simple they say

[erik]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Crack:

...i've heard that nixxing an aider mid pitch and leaving yourself only one is the way to go, super simple they say

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[willstrickland]

I've tried 2, 3, and 4. I typically use 4, BUT I also use opposed steps rather than ladders. Being able to stem in the aiders seems to help me quite often. If I were going the two aider route, I'd opt for the ladder style so you could get both feet in the same step if need be.

 

For hooks, I carry 3 cam hooks (1 of each size), a talon, cliffhanger, 3" hook, and leeper pointed. Woe to the dude on a bathook ladder with only a talon.

 

CMI? Don't know what you mean. I've used Petzl and Jumar, prefer the Petzl.

[Alex]

I use 4 aiders

 

hooks: 2 talons, 2 BD cliff hangers, 1-2 Leeper hooks, 2 Leeper cam hooks, 1 fish hook for big flakes.

 

ascenders: Petzl. There really is no better ascender

[fern]

I like Jumars better because my hands are small, Petzls are too awkward.

[Charlie]

I use 3- one connected to each daisy chain, and one clipped onto my harness for reserve- if I come to a tricky/akward move, I clip on the 3rd.

[Charlie]

another thing- a useful trick for following is to pre-size your daisies for jumaring- mark the correct loop with a sharpie, so you can set up quickly. (we all know what a pain jummaring is if your daisy lengths are incorrect)

[kevin]

One more vote for petzl ascenders. Much easier to use than jumars in my experience. I don't understand how they could be considered "flimsy" Perhaps if a 400 lb dude was jugging with them...

What does it mean when ascender "gives you the bounce"? Did it pop off?

[IceIceBaby]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kevin:

What does it mean when ascender "gives you the bounce"? Did it pop off?

---

When I set them above me it grab and then bounce in to place it did it twice maybe the cam is loose however it kind of rocked in to place I notice that my partner didn’t have this problem also his looked a lot more durable

[bigwalling]

First off. Use 4 ascenders! If it's real aid that is what you will want. Try top stepping with only two aiders. It is very hard to stand there with one foot in the highest rung and clipping your next peice. As for hooks. I have 2 cliff hangers, 2 pointed cliff hangers, 2 talons, leeper flat, leeper pointed, metolius hook(not that great), fish hook, captian hook. I would like one more fish hook to add to the list. I like the pointed cliff hangers more than the regular. Bat hook holes are too shallow. And why spent $30 on a removable bolt when you can use a $10 hook. To get free hooks, look at the base of walls. Go with petzl ascenders. Or clean with one ascender and a gri gri. I haven't tried but will soon.

[dbb]

The Ascender/gri-gri setup works well if you need to do a lot of stopping and is easy to setup. however you do bounce around a lot on a dynamic rope.

 

As per which ascender, don't bash the petzl because it spooks you out a bit. maybe the cam is loose, maybe you were'nt using it right. If you're dead set against it's cam action, check out the Ushba Ti ascenders. I believe they work with an entirely different cam system (where as Jumars etc are simmilar to petzel). I think Pro mountain sports has 'em.

 

And 2,3 or 4 probably boils down to what works best for you. try them all. I have liked using 4 and dropping the other set when not in use. However the daisies do get wrapped up eventually. I would guess that 2 would be faster if you get used to it. As Mr. Big wall middendorf says, if you can't do one piece per minute, you're taking too long.

[IceIceBaby]

quote:

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Originally posted by willstrickland:

CMI? Don't know what you mean. I've used Petzl and Jumar, prefer the Petzl.

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I am still trying to figure out which ascender get the most votes I have the Petzl but it feel too flimsy so I am looking to the one I mention above and experience

[erik]

quote:

---

Originally posted by IceIceBaby:

quote:

---

Originally posted by willstrickland:

CMI? Don't know what you mean. I've used Petzl and Jumar, prefer the Petzl.

---

I am still trying to figure out which ascender get the most votes I have the Petzl but it feel too flimsy so I am looking to the one I mention above and experience

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a petzel ascender too flimsy??? ahhh hahahahahaha ahhh hahahahaha ahhhh ahahahahaha ahhhhhahahahahahah ahahahahahaaahhhhahahahahaah sorry aaahhh hahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaahahah

[IceIceBaby]

quote:

---

Originally posted by erik:

a petzel ascender too flimsy??? ahhh hahahahahaha ahhh hahahahaha ahhhh ahahahahaha ahhhhhahahahahahah ahahahahahaaahhhhahahahahaah sorry aaahhh hahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaahahah

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Yeah Man TOO FLIMSY

 

The ascender made a squeaking sounds when I cleaned and twice gave me the bounce when I followed...so Im trying a different make it looks like I will end up with the CMI my partner have one and he said that he really like it I just haven't try the Jumars yet so I need the opinion

 

[ 05-01-2002, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

[Lambone]

I have used Jumas for a while, and I like them...

They both work. Go with 4 aiders...

[Matt_Anderson]

I have jumars and don't really like them. The the grip is uncomfortable. Otherwise they are fine.

 

Four aiders gets in the way and is to comfortable - engouraging you to lollyhgag around in the botttom step. Two aiders forces you to be more active and gets you moving.

 

That said, I seldom go for the four hour leads, so maybe if I did, I'd prefer the four aider setup. 'Cpourse, maybe the fact that I don't use four aiders prevents the four hour leads . . .

 

matt

[IceIceBaby]

After using the CMI ultrascenders combine with the Yates adjustable daises, I am convinced that the Petzl ascenders are maky at best. CMI, what a bomber ascender and easy to operate and the Yates daises, are 10 folds better then the Metolius. This combination is a must if u think of doing good amount of aid climbing. Personally they getting an A+++ for performance

[erden]

I use two aiders and have adopted three daisies.

 

Two daisies keep the aiders with me, and the third one I use to clip to the upper piece should I choose to move both aiders up at the same time, while hanging on the third daisy...

 

In this case, I would test the upper piece with my body weight by crouching, while standing in the two aiders. When satisfied, I would sit and hang in the third daisy that I just used to test the upper piece, then unclip both aiders from the last piece, and move them both to the upper piece.

 

This simulates in most circumstances the feel of the four aider scheme. I do not use this approach unless I am in situations like stemming with aiders where I feel that it would have been easier to progress on four aiders. And the rest of the time, I have the freedom of the two aider method, and less gear to manage or to tangle...

 

Erden.

 

[ 05-13-2002, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: erden ]

[erik]

well since i handt aid lcimbed in a while a felt bad fer talkin sheeit...so i went out and did some....

 

2 aiders is the only way to go....unless you are on a hard nailing route......

 

and neri you ar right petzl ascenders are manky and scary....evey pitch i jugged i waited for my death......ahhhhahahahahahhaahahahahahahahah

 

i think all that trick crap people are using now a daze to aid baby routes and shit(my type) are a waste of money and brain useage....use all those extra brain waves to give the gear you place good mojo........

 

again 2 aiders and petzel ascenders are the shit!!!

[Alex]

erik, I am kinda curious what kind of aiding you are doing, and what kind of aiders you are using?

 

Even on moderately steep (read: vertical and +) routes, you cannot possibly balance standing with both feet (offset) in only 1 conventional aider..so how do you?

 

My setup is:

1 daisy girthhitched to belay loop, with locker on the end and 2 conventional aiders.

1 daisy girthhitched to belay loop, with locker on the end and 2 conventional aiders.

1 Fifi hook as close to body as possible.

 

At any one time, one of the daisies is on a piece, one foot in each aider level with the other (for a nice comfortable stable stance), while the other daisy and aiders hang far below me, between my legs and out of the way while I place the next piece. Once the piece is placed, I retrieve currently idle daisy/aiders, clip next piece, bounce, commit, and unplug the set I had just been standing on to avoid the potential static fall.

 

Back in the day when I was cheap, I tried to do aid with only two aiders. It was slow and painful and confusing and off-balance, so I am curious as to how you make it work let alone think its better than 3/4?

 

Are your aiders double-step aiders?

 

Alex

[Lambone]

I agree with Alex. It's way better to have your feet level with each other when standing up high in aiders. Try top-steping with two aiders that are not clipped to the same biner, it sucks.

 

Two aiders is not any faster, just lighter if your doing a short section of aid in the alpine zone or something.

[erik]

just mellow stuff c2 and what not. i do it enough to be half way competent. though it is fun in its own way...

 

1 red daisy girth-hitched oval connecting it to top of a red 5 step bd aider-use with yellow ascender when jugging

 

1 blue daisy girth-hitched oval connecting it to blue 5 step bd aider- use with blue ascender

 

1 kong adjustable fifi- usually use as fixed length, but it is a nice option.

 

1 gri-gri

 

clip each piece as high as i can loop in cable on nut or close to cam as possible. clip the other aider into either the gear or other oval. work my way as high as needed. fifi higest point and then crouch, put feet into highest step needed grab biner/fifi(i hate when it falls off) grunt and stretch to make placement. either grab placement and tug if sets nice then hold on to it and balance of hardest daisy to remove and clip with alternate daisy. test again and fifi it.

 

i think it does make you faster, especially if you are thinking about it. less crap to mess with. aiders get tangled and i bet 4 gets tangled much more often and complex then 2. also it creates a balance. i can slack like okay. so maybe that helps.

 

enjoy