archenemy Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 So I'd like to hear your opinions on this situation. Yesterday at Index I was climbing with two friends. It was morning and we were at Toxic Shock. There was no one else back there, and there didn't seem to be too many folks at Index overall that day. So we were screwing around on the climb and were pretty much done. One climber was at the top and was changing out the rope so we could pull it. I'd told my other buddy that I wanted to just do the bottom part of the climb again (just the first handful of moves). So a couple of climbers come up and stop by us. They ask if we are doing laps. My buddy tells them that we are pretty much done and mentions that I'll be doing the bottom part real quick and then we were heading out. So the guy says cool and walks over to the start of the climb (I was lowering my friend and standing to the right of the climb while belaying). This dude opens up his rope bag and lays the thing out pretty much right on top of our rope bag. The person I was lowering had to be careful to avoid landing on it b/c it was right underneath her. Then, he stood right there flaking his rope while we switched. We had to step around him to avoid running into him. Again, there were no other climbers there and we had already told him we were about to head out. So WTF? Is that weird? I mean, it is just open space there, it ain't like we are sharing a ledge, sportclimbing close together, at the gym or anything like that. I felt surprised and like this guy was craming himself in on us for no understandable reason. Anyone else had this happen to them? Am I being all whiney and nitpicky? Should I have said something? Or is this normal behavior now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 It's not just you. I'd consider that rude too. If you see him again, tell him you'll be on the route ALL DAY LONG, maybe all night and into the next morning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Poor form... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Sucks, but you have to call people on stuff like that. Best to be polite and to not take shit at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 that is weird? he couldn't wait 10 minutes and flake his rope a few feet away? i could understand if there were a bunch of people around and he felt he needed to "claim" this climb. but that doesn't seem to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Perhaps he thought he was flirting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 He had a hottie with him. She was diligently putting on a tape glove. It's the new fashion statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 That is what I was thinking. I also agree with ashw justin and would have called him/them on it, like "wtf, we said we will be done in a bit, can give a little space". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmuja Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Twasn't me but... Ive been in similar situations at Index (as the dude your referring to) and had people cut right in front of us. Seems like he may have been trying to make sure that type of thing didn't happen to him. I don't *think* he was trying to bump you off the route, maybe (or maybe not) just ensuring that things go as you all talked over before another party showed up and a clusterfuck insued. People need to be pretty damned polite (he probly wasn't it sounds like anyway), but also logical, and not presumptively defensive imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I wasn't there and I don't know from your post just how much he really interfered with what you were doing (he was clearly somewhat in the way but just how much I am not sure). One thing I'd say, however, is that if you feel someone is crowding you at a climbing area it is incumbent on you to say something about it. I've been on both ends of this issue but more often than not I've probably been the one doing the crowding, as I am much more comfortable sharing belay ledges, even gear, or passing or even climbing directly alongside other parties than most people are. However, in most situations a little discussion solves the problem as long as both parties are interested in solving it. Sometimes the party intruding will back off, sometimes they'll agree that they can share the belay anchors or the rope up spot without a problem if they cooperate about taking turns in the "front seat" or one party uses an extra long extension, or whatever. Most people, once you start talking about it, do not want to leave the situation unresolved and sit there glaring at each other from three feet away. If you do elect to talk about it rather than sit there all stony, however, it is generally a good idea to start out with "hey - what are you intending here because I'm feeling a bit crowded" rather than "back of f**ker - we'll be done in a minute." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I've seen that maneuver at quite a few sport crags. Sadly, it is non-verbal language that "I am the honemaster and I don't want to wait for you". ---------------- Interestingly enough, it seemed like it used to be considered cool to be as rude as possible if you were a high end sport climber at any major sport venue like smith and the like in the 80's and early 90's. Negativity was the inspiration for many a redpoint. I'm glad that trend has mostly disappeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 I'm glad too. The guy wasn't any top notch climber by any stretch--at least not that day on that climb. I was curious, so I stayed and watched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy_t Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 it's classic, when you are getting into a nice groove somewhere, starting to have fun, and then the "city" comes right to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 hmmm...don't see that he did anything wrong...just gettin' his stuff ready to go... why the worry?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Jeesh....some Domme you are Archy. Must be a lifestyle and not your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 I think that asking for others' people's input to check my own reactions against hardly sounds like "worry" or a "lifestyle" problem. So fuck off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I've rarely found people to be as rude as Jens describes - at least not in recent years and not around here and not on short climbs. I run into more territorial issues on longer routes. We have a complaint-about-Outer-Space thread about once a month, it seems, but I always wonder: if you didn't want to climb with crowds, what were you doing on O. S. on a Saturday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 Yeah, me either. I think that's why it just caught me by surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Now now I never said it was a problem at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy_t Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 In those situations, it's usually best (for me) to say something. Hopefully in the form of a joke or something, to give them a chance to ease off rather than get defensive. Ultimately too, you never know the story behind the story, but if you don't get it off your chest in a timely way, it will bug you for the rest of the day, and I usually enjoy my time out better when I'm not thinking about human issues. But the guy crowded you (if the situation is like you described it), whether he intended to be pushy or not. Not a "big deal" (ala rumr) but low on the style points scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmace Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 hmmm...don't see that he did anything wrong...just gettin' his stuff ready to go... a dozen people reply that sucks and you the only person ask whats wrong? Clearly you are one of these close talkers..its called personal space, what do I need to do draw a line in dirt like were at a bank..? Figure it out Arch you shoulda just picked up his shit and moved out of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 (edited) hey fuck bag...he threw his stuff at the base AFTER ASKING WHAT WAS UP AND HOW LONG THE WAIT WOULD BE and being told that it was minimal...perhaps he wanted to get another pitch in before having to tear off home before curfew????? I don't think he did anything wrong, and i wouldn't have been the least bit offended...in fact, it wouldn't have bugged me if he'd tied in to his own line and was preparing to go before i'd pulled my rope... perhaps he should flake his rope 50 feet or some other magic distance away... I think, given this fucking shit hole of a site, and the punters that routinely post here, that "a dozen people reply that sucks", means absolutely nothing to me...in fact, i'd think its rather a validation of my opinion if they post counter to me... Edited July 2, 2007 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy_t Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 so there you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 hey fuck bag...he threw his stuff at the base AFTER ASKING WHAT WAS UP AND HOW LONG THE WAIT WOULD BE and being told that it was minimal...perhaps he wanted to get another pitch in before having to tear off home before curfew????? I don't think he did anything wrong, and i wouldn't have been the least bit offended...in fact, it wouldn't have bugged me if he'd tied in to his own line and was preparing to go before i'd pulled my rope... perhaps he should flake his rope 50 feet or some other magic distance away... Okay, good points. A few details: it was morning, and this was their first climb. They were clean and after they threw their stuff down they started to tape up. It is true that they could have been pressed for time anyway, but it is still confusing to me how anyone would think that setting their rope on top of mine--literally, not figuratively--would save them time. I did have so move their stuff aside to collect my rope and bag. And I personally feel weird touching other people's stuff when I don't know them. I am not against anyone preparing to go before I've left. I just am curious if setting your stuff on top of another person's stuff and right under where the climber who is being lowered has to land is considered acceptible behavior. If I knew it wasn't, I would have said something. However, I am usually off the ground pretty quick and don't run into a lot of other people for the rest of the day so I didn't know if this has become the newly acceptable method of dealing with others at the base of a climb. I honestly don't think the guy meant to be rude, which is another reason why I am baffled by the little tiny episode. It hasn't particularly upset me, as a matter of fact, I laughed about it with my climbing partners later (I can make light of anything). But it did cause me to stop and think. Maybe its just cuz I'm an old fart who is trying to understand these youngins or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 (edited) hey fuck bag...he threw his stuff at the base AFTER ASKING WHAT WAS UP AND HOW LONG THE WAIT WOULD BE and being told that it was minimal...perhaps he wanted to get another pitch in before having to tear off home before curfew????? I don't think he did anything wrong, and i wouldn't have been the least bit offended...in fact, it wouldn't have bugged me if he'd tied in to his own line and was preparing to go before i'd pulled my rope... perhaps he should flake his rope 50 feet or some other magic distance away... I think, given this fucking shit hole of a site, and the punters that routinely post here, that "a dozen people reply that sucks", means absolutely nothing to me...in fact, i'd think its rather a validation of my opinion if they post counter to me... I guess my post didn't make it in. Here it is: hey fuck bag...he threw his stuff at the base AFTER ASKING WHAT WAS UP AND HOW LONG THE WAIT WOULD BE and being told that it was minimal...perhaps he wanted to get another pitch in before having to tear off home before curfew????? I don't think he did anything wrong, and i wouldn't have been the least bit offended...in fact, it wouldn't have bugged me if he'd tied in to his own line and was preparing to go before i'd pulled my rope... perhaps he should flake his rope 50 feet or some other magic distance away... Okay, good points. A few details: it was morning, and this was their first climb. They were clean and after they threw their stuff down they started to tape up. It is true that they could have been pressed for time anyway, but it is still confusing to me how anyone would think that setting their rope on top of mine--literally, not figuratively--would save them time. I did have so move their stuff aside to collect my rope and bag. And I personally feel weird touching other people's stuff when I don't know them. I am not against anyone preparing to go before I've left. I just am curious if setting your stuff on top of another person's stuff and right under where the climber who is being lowered has to land is considered acceptible behavior. If I knew it wasn't, I would have said something. However, I am usually off the ground pretty quick and don't run into a lot of other people for the rest of the day so I didn't know if this has become the newly acceptable method of dealing with others at the base of a climb. I honestly don't think the guy meant to be rude, which is another reason why I am baffled by the little tiny episode. It hasn't particularly upset me, as a matter of fact, I laughed about it with my climbing partners later (I can make light of anything). But it did cause me to stop and think. Maybe its just cuz I'm an old fart who is trying to understand these youngins or something. Edited July 2, 2007 by archenemy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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