Dangers at Neverland

[Rad]

Your lovely graph clearly supports my points.

 

Is there a source article/reference that goes with it? Curious.

[Peter_Puget]

I've revealed too much as it is.......

[FFCS]

Man, that graph is pretty scientific. I think that the focus of my response was to point out the fact that a individual chose to put up less than quality routes on less than quality rock, then further chossed the situation by lack of experience. I believe that route setting is a skill that takes time to develop, and it is frustrating as a non route setter yet experienced climber to climb routes that I believe are unsafe. Safety was the reason for this thread starting in the first place, and although climbing is dangerous, I believe that route setters have a moral responsibility to set routes safely. Sure I can chose to not climb these routes (which I don't climb any Bruce routes), but, other people that are new to climbing that don't have the experience to read rock, assess bad bolt placements, or know route setters experience do climb these routes unfortunately.

[glm]

Creating great routes requires vision and a variety of skills (unless you are just following nature's cracks).

Of course, if the cracks are there, why are there bolts, except for anchors?

 

But hey, he was just trying to help, pointing out a possibly dangerous situation. Give him some slack!

[miladugga]

I was thinking of checking that area out this week. I'm still wondering if the original poster could identify any specific routes to be wary on, as I am one of those not particularly experienced people mentioned earlier. Or does this apply to the whole area? (Neverland)

 

Also, does anyone else who has actualy climbed there agree with him or her ?

[Weekend_Climberz]

Yes, Neverland is densely filled with chossy routes, more so than the average 38 crag. There are some good routes, but I would think your time could be better spent at some of the better crags there

[ilookeddown]

I was involved with some of the development of the Neverland area. The one route I did all the cleaning and the bolting on "The Hamster" 5.9 (Smea wall). I was also involved in some of the cleaning and bolting of "I Wanna Go Home" 5.9 2p (Lost Boys Wall). I will take responsibility for those routes I and if there are any problems with them please let me know.

 

I hope that richard noggin can soon explain which routes he is referring to. There are 16 routes and 4 separate walls.

 

Please explain where the problem is and I will fix it!

 

Thanks

 

[egaibrev]

Please explain where the problem is and I will fix it!

 

On the route "Lost my Marbles" the 4th bolt can't be clipped without loading the top biner over a significant edge. That's a pretty obvious problem. It may not be your route, but it sounds like you are in a position to remedy the situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[miladugga]

I was up there today, did a few of the easy routes. Some very nice climbing, must have been a lot of moss cleaning, thanks to those involved. Choss pile is unkind, I enjoyed the 10a and 10b on Hook, and the 2 pitch 5.9 and 3 pitch "Plank" on Lost Boys very much. Didn't pull anything off, but i did notice there are lots of sharp flakes. In particular above and left of the plank 1st belay there was a sharp flake that tended to catch the rope unless the belayer was extra vigilant. Otherwise nice views and a fun day, noone else there.

Edited July 6, 2007 by miladugga

[ilookeddown]

Thanks for the info. I will get up there by next Wednesday and attempt to fix all the problems that have been expressed. If anyone finds any other issues feel free to PM me and I will look in to it.

[512dude]

I emailed Bruce with an offer to help and replace anchors etc. but never heard back from him. Many bolts are badly placed in terms of the quality of rock surrounding the bolt as well as placement in terms of protection. There is a bolt that is placed on a hollow flake which made me wonder who is drilling these things??