How Long should projects remain virgin?

[Stewart]

So sport route's with no tag or rope hanging are ok.

 

Cuz I got my eye on an unfinished project that I'm sure everyone's been lookin at for 30 years. Now it has a directional bolt and an anchor.

 

I'm going to give it a top rope and see if its even possible for me to do.

 

If its possible, do I need to contact the person who did P1 and put in the anchor and directional?

 

I would think not, since the wall is ultra-classic and the bolted line is kind-of disrespectful in my opinion. Putting up p1 before you knew p2 was possible. Then naming p1 in relation to the ultra-classic traditional line.

 

If the route is possible for me, do I get to rename it? That is mostly, what my concern is. And I even like "Lord of the Rings"!

 

Kevbone, when are you going to finish your project? I saw someone give it a try last week, all-gear. They took at the crux but then finished it clean, then it got dark and no red-point.

 

Sorry to call ya out buddy.

 

Stewart

 

PS, should this get moved to Spray or is it still informative for newbies?

[kevbone]

Kevbone, when are you going to finish your project?

 

I have a project? Are you talking about the Big Dipper?

[Stewart]

Big Dipper! What's the word on that?

 

 

I don't agree with you calling him out on-line, but oh-well.

 

I certainly hope jason will understand and the sender will learn something as well.

 

I think that most projects should be open, After a few failed attempts.

 

I had a project in Eastern Oregon for over a year, I just couldn't get back to it. I ended up going back and in my mind got the FFA. Found out later that another friend sent it unknowing that it had not been freed. But that is a trad line, so I wasn't upset. God or whoever put this rock here, who am I to own anything?

[hemp22]

it looks like the kid who put all the bolts in doesn't want it climbed.

Apparently, the new lines are already named & rated & sprayed about online even though they are "closed projects"?

"closed" project 1 "closed" project 2

 

it may just be inexperience. kinda like that bolt on the top of the first pitch that's sticking out an inch. (I was on P1 on Monday - any gear you left up there was gone).

 

on the other route in question, i tend to agree w/ a lot of folks that projects can't just be "reserved" for long. regardless of how disrespectful the sender was for getting the redpoint against the developer's wishes, the developer (especially one with a ton of other FAs) should know that wanting people to "save" a line for so long is just unreasonable.

Edited May 17, 2007 by hemp22

[kevbone]

Big Dipper! What's the word on that?

 

No word, I could not do it on lead (PG 13), no reg tag, feel free to get the FFA. I backed off it three times. It already has a FA and a name. I did drill a hole to make it not PG 13. But never put the bolt in. Very bold lead even with the bolt. If you fall, you are going to break something.

 

To my understanding ....you backed off it too.

 

I don't agree with you calling him out on-line, but oh-well.

 

Oh- well…….he made his bed…..now he is laying in it.

 

I think that most projects should be open, after a few failed attempts.

 

To my knowledge there were no lead attempts at all on this route.

 

Edited May 17, 2007 by kevbone

[pink_chalk]

what does PG 13 mean? can someone also explain "X" and "R" rated? assuming we are still in the 'newbie forum'

 

Thank you.

[John Frieh]

PG 13: long(er) runout(s). will feel like R to someone who is leading at their limit. long fall but slim chance of getting hurt doing so. some good examples at madrone

 

R: run out and/or will hurt self if one falls at a particular point(s) on a route. good example: no gear above a potential ledge and/or ground fall... death unlikely but broken ankles likely

 

X: death

[kevbone]

I always thought PG 13 meant if you fall you will most likely hit a ledge or something and potentially break something.

[pink_chalk]

Thank you for clarifying.

[sexual_chocolate]

RED TAG

I have a friend that was work'n a 5.13 at the coulee for like 2 years, he put a lot of work just getting it ready for a red point, days of hanging under a roof and lets not forget the $$$ for hardware, he was getting close to sending his hardest route to date...oh can you think of the JOY he would have felt !!!

Instead his route got shanked...he has stopped climbing at the coulee...that sooo sucks because he has put up many of the routes we all sooooo enjoy. He put his time , money and part of himself into that climb, now he is BUMMED so someones ego can be stroked :tdown:

 

who's that? and what route?

[kevbone]

PG 13: long(er) runout(s). will feel like R to someone who is leading at their limit. long fall but slim chance of getting hurt doing so. some good examples at madrone

 

R: run out and/or will hurt self if one falls at a particular point(s) on a route. good example: no gear above a potential ledge and/or ground fall... death unlikely but broken ankles likely

 

X: death

 

Madrone...your not supposed to climb there!

 

[Stewart]

Yo Hemp22, I think we met a while back. What do you think about attempting the climb?

 

Does each pitch get a different name even though its the same climb?

 

Should posting an unfinished climb on line hold your spot?

 

Is it ok to put in a shitty anchor and then send people out to go and climb it?

 

In my opinion, No, No, and No!

 

That is a classic wall! many people have been waiting for that pitch. I'm not sure that you can reserve a line on a classic wall like that.

 

If you ever want to give it a try, I'll belay.

 

I know that you climb at that grade so I would love to take pics or belay or give it a try myself.

 

I'm sure that this phil caracter has good intentions, but he should replace that first anchor. Do you agree?

[lancegranite]

I am good friends with project man, and I think that a few details have not made it to the light here.

*Project man has many open projects, and all are welcome to climb and name them. the route in question is an exception, not the rule.

* The route in question here involved a LOT of work to clean and prepare, we are not talking about a little dirt and moss here, more like steep loose rock cleaning.

*There is more room for more lines at said cliff, ego boy could have done his own new line at any time.

*Ego boy really did everyone a favor by "opening up" a line that someone else had put 40 hours of cleaning and bolting into, what a HERO!

 

[kevbone]

I am good friends with project man, and I think that a few details have not made it to the light here.

*Project man has many open projects, and all are welcome to climb and name them. the route in question is an exception, not the rule.

* The route in question here involved a LOT of work to clean and prepare, we are not talking about a little dirt and moss here, more like steep loose rock cleaning.

*There is more room for more lines at said cliff, ego boy could have done his own new line at any time.

*Ego boy really did everyone a favor by "opening up" a line that someone else had put 40 hours of cleaning and bolting into, what a HERO!

 

You tell em Russ!!!!!!!

[Jens]

Newbies,

This question will vary from area to area depending on how many visiting road trippers visit. I'd say on average about 7 months for a route at a year round -season sport crag is legit.

I've snagged redpoints from climbers who have had to have surgery and the like and then opened them up out of the kindness of their heart. If this guy is that hurt, 2 years? Did he have surgery? That is excessive to hold onto it thaaaaaat long.

-------------------

I'll sometimes just leave 3-4 drilled holes empty until I am ready to send the route.

 

[Stewart]

Thanks Jens and Russ!

 

All good points, just hope Jason doesn't take down the route's. That would be a shame as The Crumbling is one of the most popular route's out there.

[Stewart]

If a project is at a State Park, is it possible to close the project to only one person?

 

Isn't the State Park for everyone to use?

 

Stewart

[richard_noggin]

I am good friends with project man, and I think that a few details have not made it to the light here.

*Project man has many open projects, and all are welcome to climb and name them. the route in question is an exception, not the rule.

* The route in question here involved a LOT of work to clean and prepare, we are not talking about a little dirt and moss here, more like steep loose rock cleaning.

*There is more room for more lines at said cliff, ego boy could have done his own new line at any time.

*Ego boy really did everyone a favor by "opening up" a line that someone else had put 40 hours of cleaning and bolting into, what a HERO!

 

Way to put it in perspective :tup:

[lancegranite]

The fact that everyone else respected project man's situation for two long years speaks volumes about his character.

 

 

[EgoBoy]

Kevin thanks for posting my good deeds on the net. You know communication between us would have yielded nothing. I would have asked you (and Jason) would have said no. When you first told me of the line I understood, you guys did a tremendous amount of work out there for which I am thankful of. However, when I found out when the line was developed I was shocked. No line should be closed for such a reason. I had asked around and heard that the line need more prep work due to a large boulder being loose. After inspection I found said boulder to be quite solid and far away from the line of weakness. Knowing that it might be many more months before Jason healed and got back into shape and that Kevin being a family man, the line had potential to be closed indefinitely. So I climbed the line, it contained some excellent movement in my opinion. I moved the tag to the anchors to signify the line had been sent and was now open. I assumed (rather foolishly) that a man with so many FA wouldn’t care all that much, in fact I was told that he would “laugh it off”. Poaching the line is not something I am proud of. The FFA means very little in my book. What matters to me is the act of climbing itself. Yes, I could have taken therefore negating the FFA, but that wouldn’t have solved the problem of a closed line.

Many of you can say “you don’t know what its like to engage in such an undertaking” when in fact I do. I will not mention where for obvious reasons. The work is hard, there is no other way to look at it. That line caught my eye, had I seen it before you I would have developed it myself.

Yes Kevin what I did was selfish and I do deserve some flack for it and I expected it. But isn’t keeping something very public private? You know what I think is more selfish? Taking the bolts out of TWO lines and DESTROYING THE HOLDS!! I am sorry, but the whole “I don’t like the way you play so I’m going to take my ball home” attitude is weak. I’d love to hear you defend your friends position.

I am not going to name the route. I said that only after I was threatened with violence. Getting emails saying I know who you are, talking shit about my friends who had nothing to do with this, and of course openly calling me out on the internet, this is childish bullshit. And come on, do you really think it was my intention to go around spraying about it just to boost my ego. You want to talk about big egos, look at yourself. Why is it that you care so much about a FFA? Do you think it might have something to do with YOUR ego?

 

-Ryan Palo

 

[catbirdseat]

Gonna be a hot time in the old town tonight.

[high_on_rock]

Is it too late to suggest "Peace, Love, and Brotherhood?"

[G-spotter]

You guys should all have hot group grudge fuck

[kevbone]

Sorry R.

[pink_chalk]

*group hug*

 

sickie