mikeadam Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Rambo 2's become knuckle busters after about grade 3+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Axars? If you get the pulsar make sure you get one Evolution with the interchangable shaft, nice for alpine trips where you use an ice axe on the approach and a short tool on hard ice on the route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 I have no clue about the Rambos, but the Pulsars hold an appeal because the "evolution model" has interchangable shafts. Want a regular ice tool-no prob, bent shaft-no prob, walking axe-again no prob. I took one of these at the local shop, inserted the shaft into a step on the deck and hung off the thing bouncing on it trying to make the shaft become loose. Solid. You'd really only need one of the tools to be interchangable anyway. Using two tools, you could have a non-changeable bent-shaft hammer and configure the adze however you want (the adze because you'd be plunging it and therefore want to be able to switch it to a straight shaft. Only thing I don't like about them is the head is not very comfortable if you're going to be plunging alot. Hell, I shouldn't even be talking about them, I just bought Lammy's Shrikes so maybe that says something about my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 if you get the hammer w/ evolution interchangable style , you can take the shaft and pick off and it turns into a super light alpine rock hammer for taking booty pins out of canadian rockies trade routes and so on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 pulsars are super trustworthy. you know there's something right when they haven't substantially changed the design in a long time. i've had just the setup described - one multi-shaft, one bent shaft - for going on eight seasons of hard use, and they've never broken, loosened or fallen apart in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 I'll resist the temptation to say both suck... And just say that I don't like the balance or swing weight of either. Or the picks. Or all the extra screws and shit that are all over them. Or the shape of the hammer and adze. Or the fact that you need to put extra weight on the heads(shut up Dru). Or charlet and grivel leashes for that matter. But then again, I am just another BD snob. Will is stoaked (they're on their way bro). Oh yeah...sorry mikeadam...But I hate it when people say that one tool makes you hit your knuckles on the ice more than another tool. Bullshit. Bad technique makes you hit your knuckles on the ice. Wanna learn good technique, buy straight shaft tools and leather boots. And wool gloves. And put your gaiters on the inside (I'm not implying that anyone here has bad technique, or that I have good technique, just my opinion.) ]http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/php/specials.php[/url] Ok, enough of my blabbering. [ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: lambone ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_the_Menace Posted November 9, 2001 Author Share Posted November 9, 2001 I'm one click away from buying new tools.Down to Grivel Rambo II's (1 hammer, 1 alp2) orCharlet Moser Pulsars. (1 hammer, 1 adze) Help me decide. Climbing WI3 to 4+ and mixed alpine. Thx,D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Pulsars, no question. I still like the Pulsars better than many of the newer tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 If you put your gaiters on the inside, if you kick your leg you shred your $400 bibs. If you put gaiters on the outside, kick your leg, shred your $50 gaiters. Gaiters are sacrificial! The keep snow out of the boots feature is secondary. The reason I hate BD tools is pure and simple the grip. I wish they would make a Cobra with a Rage grip. The Black Prophet/Cobra grip design with it t-shaped and widerer at the back end, is the ugliest-feeling grip I have ever held, maybe it is the way my hand is shaped or sized, but I loathe it. On the other hand the Quark feels like it was designed specifically for my hand. Go Chalet! Quarks Forever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 I dont have spendy pants yet. I wear 80$ bibs made for snowboarding when ice climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 I like to wear a kilt while ice climbing, after all it was invented by the Scots! I also like to drink whiskey while Im ice climbing, it keeeeps you warrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 I got my flask matey. But I aint wearing the dress bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Pulsar/Evolution combo rocks! Versatile and reliable. Only drawback is when set up as a glacier tool it weighs a ton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 If we are talking about the changing shaft ice tool here I have a different opinion. It sux. It vibrated like crazy when I used it. Of course if you are used to climbing in hummingbirds or Pterodactyls then you might view this sort of step up as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 I have had two Evolutions for four seasons and have had absolutely no vibration problems. (Although, Cavey, I do own a Pterodactyl! Just a museum piece now.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 A Quark shaft isn't the only thing designed specificaly for your hand Dru... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 hmmm, vibration sounds good! i found the pulsar vibrated a bit but not horribly so. just not much clearance over bulges. FWIW I found my pulsars climbed better without the head weights than with them. so I took em off. anybody with a "Prince Albert" wants some head weights for a tool ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 quote: Originally posted by slaphappy: I have had two Evolutions for four seasons and have had absolutely no vibration problems. (Although, Cavey, I do own a Pterodactyl! Just a museum piece now.) Maybe you are just one of those old school hard men or something Just have to ask if you have swung most other tools on the market in comparison. I have at least swung or demoed a lot of the tools out there last season but not all. I definitely thought that these were on the low end of the spectrum to be honest. My partner Mike O. set hi aside for some DMM Flys and never picked them back up. I used them once and set them aside too. Just some thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 quote: Originally posted by lambone: A Quark shaft isn't the only thing designed specificaly for your hand Dru... If you are talking about my shaft I will have you know I'm so well-endowed I have to order my pants specially with a third leg sewn in them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 I here you get better sensitivity without gaitors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Nope Cavey, I haven't had the luxury of trying too many options. They change so fast these days how can anyone keep up? I have tried fixed shaft tools and have not noticed any difference in vibration. (Trango's, BD X-15's, older prophet's) Maybe the Evolution you used was loose. Just my opinion as a non-hardman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 its funny in the latest Climbing tool ad masquerading as a gear test they said the Fly had"cheaper components and more vibration" or something like that. [ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Dru ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Lots of those mag reviews I find to be full of shit or don't jive with my opinions. I think that people just weed it out because it is an inexpensive tool that is actually good. Or that people are just loyal to one product\company like BD or CM Grivel ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 let's review for a moment, shall we? dennis asked about moderate water ice and mixed alpine tools, and now everyone is dragging quarks and cobras into the discussion. for me, the difference between an alpine tool and an "ice cragging" tool is the head design, 'cause a huge amount of the time you are grabbing the head with your hand in cane or dagger position. most of the really high end tools don't allow for this very well, even the new axar i got this year is less comfy than my pulsars in this mode. my personal opinion is that the DMMs "feel" very heavy, because i have a small hand and their shaft is very large diameter. i've climbed a bit with predators, and they just feel big and clunky to me, i shatter the ice a lot more with them. the bd prophets are nice, but are also heavier than my pulsars. everyone i know with prophets has had the rubber grip come off, sometimes more than once. i really like how the axar climbs, and it's kind of halfway between a "performance" tool and an alpine tool. from what i can tell, the bd rage is a straight-out knock off of the shape, so i would probably like it too. as for lambone's comment about screws on the CM tools, without the head weights (like dru, i dropped mine in the garbage the first week), there's no more exposed fasteners than any other tool, and my own experience has been very good. but i like a light weight, narrow shafted tool. ymmv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 So what you are saying Forrest is that you prefer that axar as an all around tool and think that is what Dennis is trying to buy? I don't climb much alpine ice. I am scared to end up in the grave so I just spray all over on what I used and what I used it for. It's information for him to extrapolate and decide what he wants. Not like it is unwanted since he was asking some opinions.. Even the tools mentioned are out of the subject line. Often I find more insight from others may be creative and helpfull in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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