Mount Erie: Orange Wall??

[Layback]

Dude - It's a guidebook with an advertisement on the back. How is that forceing anything on you? As far as I know he didn't show up at your house procaliming, "I am here to save you my brother." You can believe in God and still be a reasonable science-minded individual. Tear the pages out if you don't like them. At the end of the day, your no better than the red-neck right-winged idiots that voted W into office b/c you are brainwashed to the other extreme.

 

Yeah, he's a bit of an extremist, but that's not a reason to not buy beta from him. That's just stupid.

 

Sigmund Freud, the father of modern-day physchiatry thought that everyone should do cocaine because it would be good for society. We discarded that notion because he was a nut, but it doesn't mean that we throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

Anyway, good luck on the new routes.

 

Edited April 18, 2007 by Layback75

[mattp]

I'm with Mr. Layback. This discussion reminds me of a quip from a friend of mine, about another friend: "that _____, he has Jesus issues."

 

I tend toward the secular humanism side of things myself, but I sure don't hold it against someone that they believe in Christ and, even if I did, I don't think that would be a reason to boycott their guidebook just because they put their testimonial on the back cover.

 

How many guidebooks have some statement about climbing ethics or environmental politics similarly displayed? Sure, these are more closely related to most climbers' interest and the manner in which most of us view the topic of the guidebook but plenty of authors take advantage of an opportunity to make some kind of statement.

 

I actually think it is kind of cool that he could do that, and I see it as one of the virtues of self publication that one has the freedom to do something other than the salutory praises from a half dozen famous climbers or the gratuitous girly shot or whatever else that the marketers at Falcon or Mountaineers Press think will sell copy.

[Maestro]

Ditto here. Just because the testimonial is there is no reason to boycott the book if it otherwise has good information. You don't have to read it unless you want to. And like someone said, tear it out if it offends you.

 

So do you refuse to watch Seahawks games because Shaun Alexander does commercials for Casey Treat's church, or boycott the TV stations that run said commercials?

 

Freedom of religion and freedom of the press are involved here.

 

Now...my problem with that guidebook is that it doesn't have a usable map. The diagram of the trail system is very sketchy, not to scale, and doesn't show where the cliffs are in relation to it. This whole thread started because the various crags are so hard to find there!

[G-spotter]

freedom of the press are involved here.

 

 

Refusing to buy a book because you find it offensive IS freedom. Freedom of the press is if you prevented it from being printed

[Sol]

or maybe its because its the worst guidbook ever made

[Choada_Boy]

Dude - It's a guidebook with an advertisement on the back. How is that forceing anything on you? As far as I know he didn't show up at your house procaliming, "I am here to save you my brother." You can believe in God and still be a reasonable science-minded individual.

 

Yeah, he's a bit of an extremist, but that's not a reason to not buy beta from him. That's just stupid.

 

Sigmund Freud, the father of modern-day physchiatry thought that everyone should do cocaine because it would be good for society. We discarded that notion because he was a nut, but it doesn't mean that we throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

Anyway, good luck on the new routes.

 

1) Your Freud example/babble is lame for too many reasons to list here.

2) There is no God. Prove me wrong.

3) You cannot believe in "God" and be a "reasonable science-minded individual". See #2 above.

4) Part of being a Christian is spreading the "Teachings of Christ" and getting people to accept Jesus as their "God and Savior". Kloke is trying to spread his flavor of zealotry not only with his guidebook, but with his naming of climbs. He doesn't need to show up at my house to push his delusion on me, he's trying to do it with his routes. What if I pioneered new routes and named them "Thank you for Shopping at Wal-Mart", "Wal-Mart: Always Low Prices", "Find Sizzling Values on Great Summer Products at Wal-Mart", and "Shop and Save at Wal-Mart"? My privilege as a first ascentionist, but totally LAME for posterity.

5) His guidebook, despite his best efforts, is one of the worst guidebooks around. Maps should help a person get where they want to go. Topos should show where routes are. They should also bear an at least passing resemblance to the rock they are attempting to describe. An editor might have pointed this out.

[KFed]

ZING!

[Blake]

I don't think the book is very good compared to a glossy guide. I think that is for a few reasons. Erie is a confusing place with many bad trails, many small nondescript walls, and Kloke is not an author or veteran guidebook writer. Basically, he has climbed out there more than anyone else, so put together a DIY cheap guide with basics of the area. Anyone can tell after 30seconds of browsing, that it is a very basic/amateur attempt. I doubt Kloke was aiming for anything more.

 

His previous edition got shredded on accident by the printers, and I am sure he was frustrated and ready to be done with the project. If his personal morals bother you, then don't buy the book, or rip out those pages. I doubt he has the artistic skills to draw a great trail map, nor the money to hire a plane for aerial photos. If the book is not worth XXX dollars to you, then don't pay it but quit whining that it is available for purchase.

 

If you are thinking about buying, be aware that it is more of a garage-project type of endeavor than a professional book like something from Falcon Press. Erie has seen heaps of new activity in the last few years, and once I can actually get to a wall, this guide seems to have all the beta I'd need. I don't blame Kloke/God/Choada_boy for the the shitty trail system or lack of signs.

 

There must be a better use of your time though, than to complain online about if an 80yr old Anacortes man should make public his belief in God or not.

[Layback]

This isn't about proving to you God is real. I can't do that and I don't care to. I really don't care what you believe in.

 

At the end of the day you are throwing the baby out with the bath water and the way you conduct yourself is childish.

 

Part of being a Christian is spreading the "Teachings of Christ" and getting people to accept Jesus as their "God and Savior".

 

That's a generalization. It's like saying that part of being black is stealing and doing drugs or part of being Iraqi is blowing up large buildings or part of being a high-school drop out is being stupid.

[Choada_Boy]

At the end of the day, best part of all this is that it doesn't really matter what you think, it matters what I think. Thank you for not refuting my points above.

 

Regardless, I only wanted to know where the Orange Wall was, not read the Bible. I can do that at any motel in the country.

 

 

[Blake]

I'm gonna be there this friday, I can show you the orange wall if you want to Choada.

[dirtysloper]

word... the worst guidebook i've seen.

 

[plexus]

I don't think the book is very good compared to a glossy guide. I think that is for a few reasons. Erie is a confusing place with many bad trails, many small nondescript walls, and Kloke is not an author or veteran guidebook writer. Basically, he has climbed out there more than anyone else, so put together a DIY cheap guide with basics of the area. Anyone can tell after 30 seconds of browsing, that it is a very basic/amateur attempt. I doubt Kloke was aiming for anything more.

 

There must be a better use of your time though, than to complain online about if an 80yr old Anacortes man should make public his belief in God or not.

 

The guy has spent countless hours up there cleaning climbs, taking notes, etc. I know, I've been up there on a few of those excursions. If you climbed there first, you could have made the names of the climbs.

 

As for the quality of the guidebook, as Blake and anybody else can say, it is a confusing place. It took me a couple of years of rigourous scouting to find all of the walls and climbs that were in his private notes that he gave me a copy of. Some of the climbs were great, others not so great -- that has more to do with the odd type of rock that Mount Erie is consisted of.

 

Having lived in Anacortes before it was great having the place there. It was also great having the knowledge to go to one of the non-descript walls when on a weekend and all of the higher-profile walls were taken.