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kevbone

Adding a bolt to a Portland route

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Disclaimer: I will not do this.

 

Just for discussion sake, I would like to hear what others say about retroing an already retroed climb at Broughtons Bluff.

 

If you have ever climbed Critical Mass, you know the end is a little on the sketchy side. The guide book states its optional gear at the top. What gear? Way off to the right or way off to the left? But not on the route. I know people who have actually fallen off at the wrong place and took the 20-25 footer. If she was not wearing a Helmut she might not be with us today. So would anyone else like to see a bolt go in at the end? I would. This coming from someone who has climbed this route over 30 times. I still get sketched at the end. Point is the bolting job was not done well in the first place. Do we have a responsibility to fix it? Also none of this would be done without asking the FFA person or team.

 

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don't know the route but a 20-25 footer at the top of most routes doesn't seem to be that big...

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don't know the route but a 20-25 footer at the top of most routes doesn't seem to be that big...

 

no shit. go europe. mandatory 20 footers on every bolt.

 

spurt climbing is so weak.

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don't know the route but a 20-25 footer at the top of most routes doesn't seem to be that big...

 

If it was over hanging I would agree. The end is about 20-25 foot of slap over an overhang. The last bolt is about 15-20 feet from the anchor and its probably a 10.a finish 10 feet above the last bolt. Ru....its a little sketchy. But doable. It has been climbed this way for years. That doesnt mean it is safe. I freak out everytime I do it. On the other hand the route is rated 11.c. and the hardest moves are lower, so one could say if you can climb 11.c you should be able to pull the 10.a runout at the end. I my opinion there is no gear on the route at the end. Why is there no bolt there?

Edited by kevbone

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Why did is there no bolt there?

 

Kevbone distilled.

 

 

 

There's no bolt there because some people aren't pussies.

 

 

Maybe go climbing at Suicide for some perspective.

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Blowjobboarder.....thank god I put this in spray....or you would not be able to respond to me.

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don't know the route but a 20-25 footer at the top of most routes doesn't seem to be that big...

 

If it was over hanging I would agree. The end is about 20-25 foot of slap over an overhang. The last bolt is about 15-20 feet from the anchor and its probably a 10.a finish 10 feet above the last bolt. Ru....its a little sketchy. But doable. It has been climbed this way for years. That doesnt mean it is safe. I freak out everytime I do it. On the other hand the route is rated 11.c. and the hardest moves are lower, so one could say if you can climb 11.c you should be able to pull the 10.a runout at the end. I my opinion there is no gear on the route at the end. Why is there no bolt there?

"a .10a runout on an .11c route" that is the answer to why there is no bolt...

 

plus, why does every stinkin' route need to be sanitized??? get your shit together, and fire the thing or come back another day...plus, you can down climb or get a tr from someone...

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don't know the route but a 20-25 footer at the top of most routes doesn't seem to be that big...

 

If it was over hanging I would agree. The end is about 20-25 foot of slap over an overhang. The last bolt is about 15-20 feet from the anchor and its probably a 10.a finish 10 feet above the last bolt. Ru....its a little sketchy. But doable. It has been climbed this way for years. That doesnt mean it is safe. I freak out everytime I do it. On the other hand the route is rated 11.c. and the hardest moves are lower, so one could say if you can climb 11.c you should be able to pull the 10.a runout at the end. I my opinion there is no gear on the route at the end. Why is there no bolt there?

"a .10a runout on an .11c route" that is the answer to why there is no bolt...

 

plus, why does every stinkin' route need to be sanitized??? get your shit together, and fire the thing or come back another day...plus, you can down climb or get a tr from someone...

 

I agree. Taking a 20 footer into space is one thing, did you read the comments above? It’s a slab finish. If you fall in the wrong place you have the exposure to get hurt in such a way as to NEVER CLIMB AGAIN. I don’t care what the fucking grade is. It should have been bolted more responsibly.

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don't know the route but a 20-25 footer at the top of most routes doesn't seem to be that big...

 

If it was over hanging I would agree. The end is about 20-25 foot of slap over an overhang. The last bolt is about 15-20 feet from the anchor and its probably a 10.a finish 10 feet above the last bolt. Ru....its a little sketchy. But doable. It has been climbed this way for years. That doesnt mean it is safe. I freak out everytime I do it. On the other hand the route is rated 11.c. and the hardest moves are lower, so one could say if you can climb 11.c you should be able to pull the 10.a runout at the end. I my opinion there is no gear on the route at the end. Why is there no bolt there?

"a .10a runout on an .11c route" that is the answer to why there is no bolt...

 

plus, why does every stinkin' route need to be sanitized??? get your shit together, and fire the thing or come back another day...plus, you can down climb or get a tr from someone...

 

 

In general I agree with you R but it is the ultimate sign of being a wanker if you construct a sketchy runouts after any preinspection. At one time a friend and I decided that we'd clean each others projects so that we wouldn't have all that preinspection knowledge. As it turns out half the fun of doing new routes around here is cleaning them so that was short lived.

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no kevin, i disagree...unprotected 10- climbing on a midgrade 11 route should be considered "protected" based on the expected ability of the climber...ie. a mid 5.11 climber should be able to handle an easy 5.10 section...

 

now, if this route was 5.10a then you'd have a point...

 

Falling in the wrong place? Big deal...this is climbing, its dangerous, if you don't wanna accept some risk, pick a kev bolted route or take up golf...

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OMFG, you could get hurt climbing?

 

 

Go to the gym for sanitized safe "climbing", you wanker. Stay off routes that are beyond your comfort level if you're worried about getting hurt.

 

Is it really this complicated?

 

Btw, I think you're trolling. And by think, I mean hope, because if you seriously want to bring someone elses route down to your level, why not just chip that upper slab so it's 5.6 and then you won't be worried 10' above a bolt.

 

For shame...

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don't know the route but a 20-25 footer at the top of most routes doesn't seem to be that big...

 

If it was over hanging I would agree. The end is about 20-25 foot of slap over an overhang. The last bolt is about 15-20 feet from the anchor and its probably a 10.a finish 10 feet above the last bolt. Ru....its a little sketchy. But doable. It has been climbed this way for years. That doesnt mean it is safe. I freak out everytime I do it. On the other hand the route is rated 11.c. and the hardest moves are lower, so one could say if you can climb 11.c you should be able to pull the 10.a runout at the end. I my opinion there is no gear on the route at the end. Why is there no bolt there?

"a .10a runout on an .11c route" that is the answer to why there is no bolt...

 

plus, why does every stinkin' route need to be sanitized??? get your shit together, and fire the thing or come back another day...plus, you can down climb or get a tr from someone...

 

 

In general I agree with you R but it is the ultimate sign of being a wanker if you construct a sketchy runouts after any preinspection. At one time a friend and I decided that we'd clean each others projects so that we wouldn't have all that preinspection knowledge. As it turns out half the fun of doing new routes around here is cleaning them so that was short lived.

 

This is fair...

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Is this rig rap bolted or ground up?

 

I believe was first top roped then later retroed by someone else.

 

Its really easy to sit at your computer and call me a whimp. You have not climbed the climb. I have climbed up over 30 times and will continue to climb it. I would preferr to have another bolt.

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don't think blowboarder would have to much trouble with it...

 

and if he did, he'd downclimb and come back some other day rather than whining about it...

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Kevin, haven't climbed it, but if you've done it 30 times and you're still with us it would indicate that it's fine. That it isn't risk-free is what you seem to be objecting to. At what point does it stop? When all routes are risk free? When they're risk-free for just you and good climbers, or can lesser climbers want bolts in places you don't think they're necessary? Climbing without risk is something else.

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Kevin, haven't climbed it, but if you've done it 30 times and you're still with us it would indicate that it's fine. That it isn't risk-free is what you seem to be objecting to. At what point does it stop? When all routes are risk free? When they're risk-free for just you and good climbers, or can lesser climbers want bolts in places you don't think they're necessary? Climbing without risk is something else.

 

I don’t want risk free. That would be called a top rope. I just think this particular route was not bolted responsibly. If someone falls and hurts themselves in such a way that they never climb again. Are you going to say tough shit to them?

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responsibly? what happened to a climber taking responsibility for himself?? Now the fa is responsible for all dumbasses who potentially may climb it in the future??

 

poor reasoning...

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responsibly? what happened to a climber taking responsibility for himself?? Now the fa is responsible for all dumbasses who potentially may climb it in the future??

 

poor reasoning...

 

That reasoning sounds like you have never put up a route, or a popular route. I believe the FFA/FA has a responsibility to the climbing community for everyone that follows. That is how I approach putting routes up. I have put up or been part of putting up over 40 routes.

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no...the routes that i've done or participated in putting up i protected for myself within the rating of the route. I don't owe anything to anyone beyond myself and my party...if you don't like it, go find something else...likewise, i don't fuck with another person's route...

 

The first real flaw in your reasoning is you are equipping routes based on what YOU think is NECESSARY for EVERYONE to be able to climb the route. This is very grey...perhaps you should consult the ADA Handbook and equip your routes for disabled folks...also, put tactile strips in, so that blind folks don't get cut out of the equation, etc. etc. etc.

 

The second flaw in your reasoning is if its followed to its logical conclusion every route everywhere will be sanitized and safe...do you really want this?? Part of the beauty of climbing, for me, is i can go out (on some days, and they are getting further and further apart now) and scare myself silly and pull something off and feel great about it...other days, i might just TR something...you are removing this from the equation unilaterally...

 

Perhaps the intent of the FA was to actually put some spice into an otherwise bland jug haul????

 

I think you should go retro bolt the bachar yerian now...i feel that i might get injured if i try it, and i've climbe a lot of 5.11's so i should be able to try that one...[dripping sarcasm]...:rolleyes:

Edited by RuMR

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I think you should go retro bolt the bachar yerian now...i feel that i might get injured if i try it, and i've climbe a lot of 5.11's so i should be able to try that one...[dripping sarcasm]...:rolleyes:

 

 

Plenty of moderates out there have the same potential "issue". Crest Jewel in Yosemite for example...a 5.9 slab climber could probably flail through the 5.10a cruxes because they're well bolted, but on the 5.8's, would at best be totally gripped and at worst, take a 75 footer down a 60-70 degree slab. If you're a confident 5.10 slab climber, the 3-bolt, 50+ meter 5.8 pitches won't even make you blink.

 

That's the beauty of varied FA artistry- you can pick your battles each day according to how bold you're feeling.

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I don't owe anything to anyone beyond myself and my party

 

Thanks for pointing out how selfish you are!

 

perhaps you should consult the ADA Handbook and equip your routes for disabled folks...also, put tactile strips in, so that blind folks don't get cut out of the equation, etc. etc. etc.

 

Thanks for making me laugh! That is hilarious.

 

The second flaw in your reasoning is if followed to its logical conclusion every route everywhere will be sanitized and safe...do you really want this?

 

No I don’t want that. Where do you get that idea? I was talking about one specific climb.

 

 

Perhaps the intent of the FA was to actually put some spice into an otherwise bland jug haul????

 

 

Thanks for telling us what the FFA was thinking. You know him and you where there. Right? Or maybe they did what they did because they are idiots and did not know what they were doing.

 

 

I think you should go retro bolt the bachar yerian now...i feel that i might get injured if i try it, and i've climbe a lot of 5.11's so i should be able to try that one...[dripping sarcasm]...

 

More good humor.

 

Read the very first line in my original post.

 

Edited by kevbone

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I don't owe anything to anyone beyond myself and my party

 

Thanks for pointing out how selfish you are!

 

NEVER CLAIMED OTHERWISE...AT LEAST I'M HONEST

 

perhaps you should consult the ADA Handbook and equip your routes for disabled folks...also, put tactile strips in, so that blind folks don't get cut out of the equation, etc. etc. etc.

 

Thanks for making me laugh! That is hilarious.

 

YES, I HAVE A STUNNING SENSE OF HUMOR

The second flaw in your reasoning is if followed to its logical conclusion every route everywhere will be sanitized and safe...do you really want this?

 

No I don’t want that. Where do you get that idea? I was talking about one specific climb.

I GET THIS IDEA BECAUSE OF YOUR POSTING...WHY STOP AT JUST THIS ONE ROUTE...OBVIOUSLY YOU COULD APPLY YOUR LOGIC TO ALL ROUTES, RIGHT?

 

 

Perhaps the intent of the FA was to actually put some spice into an otherwise bland jug haul????

 

 

Thanks for telling us what the FFA was thinking. You know him and you where there. Right? Or maybe they did what they did because they are idiots and did not know what they were doing.

I DIDN'T SAY THAT I KNEW WHAT HE WAS THINKING...LOOK UP THE WORD "PERHAPS", PLEASE...

 

 

I think you should go retro bolt the bachar yerian now...i feel that i might get injured if i try it, and i've climbe a lot of 5.11's so i should be able to try that one...[dripping sarcasm]...

 

More good humor.

 

Read the very first line in my original post.

 

I DID READ THE FIRST LINE OF YOUR POST...SO YOU MIGHT NOT DO IT, BUT YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT IT ENOUGH TO POST...

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