Getting a softshell

[Klimber]

As a follow up to my question about a lightweight hardshell you guys have convinced me to get a soft shell. Now that I have been looking at them they look like a GREAT piece of gear because I have many occasions this winter felt like a swamp inside my hardshell.

 

I typically run hot so I want a softshell that is relatively thin. I climb, snowshoe, backpack, year round. So I think I would only use the softshell in the late fall, winter and early spring.

 

 

 

My thoughts are

1) Patagonia Houdini Patagonia lists this as a softshell, is it really? I haven't seen this in person so I am not sure it's what I want.

2) REI Mistral - I tried this on and liked the weight and the fit was OK.

3) Patagonia Dimension - I haven't tried this one but I really like the idea of the welded seams, it seems they would hold out water better.

4) Arc'Teryx Gamma MX - I liked the fit of this but dude, $299??? I don't think it's $150 better then the REI Mistral

5) North Face Apex Bionic - this one fit nice, seemed about the right weight.

 

It seems all the materials are equivalent, DRW, spandex, nylon, etc. True? Or are there specific materials that are really great on a softshell.

 

I am also thinking, no hood but am undecided...

 

Does anyone have experience with softshells that would help me pick one based on my uses? Does anyone have experience with the above jackets?

 

 

[gslater]

The Houdini is nothing like the others; it's basically a very light windbreaker. Calling it a softshell is REEAAALLLLYYYYY stretching the definition.

 

I have not one, not two, but three pairs (two normal, and one zip-off) of the REI Mistral pants, but no jacket. They've all been used heavily over the past few years, and have held up extremely well. Have proven to be far tougher than I expected for the weight.

[Klimber]

Calling it a softshell is REEAAALLLLYYYYY stretching the definition.

 

Isn't it?

 

http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/product/collection.jsp?OPTION=COLLECTIONS_DISPLAY_HANDLER&catcode=MAIN_SP07_US.CLOTHING_GEAR.MENS.JACKETS.SOFT_SHELL

[JosephH]

Marmot Photon - being dumped - on sale some places online for $99. It's what I use in howling winter east winds up in the gorge at Beacon. Fits over a helmet particularly well. Dirt cheap at that price and works great.

[Chad_A]

After posting on here for the same issue (softshells), I picked up a Ready Mix Patagonia. Really nice. They run ~15oz, so they're an ounce or three heavier than a Paclite Goretex item, but they breath oh-so-much better. The price point is reasonable, as well.

 

[Klimber]

After posting on here for the same issue (softshells), I picked up a Ready Mix Patagonia. Really nice. They run ~15oz, so they're an ounce or three heavier than a Paclite Goretex item, but they breath oh-so-much better. The price point is reasonable, as well.

 

 

 

Are all the seams welded?

 

edit: I guess they are

 

Welded Seam technology for reduced weight and improved wet weather performance, durability, softness and compressibility

 

Edited March 13, 2007 by Klimber

[gt5816v]

I have a Gamma MX and really like it. It's my first softshell so I don't have much to compare it to though...

[ericb]

I have the Figure 4, the hoodless verion of the ready mix (wish I had gotten the hooded version)....the welded seams are sweet - the quality of the constructon is excellent. I'm not sure about the others on this list, but the Ready Mix/Figure 4 are very thin/light (pure shell), so if you run hot, this is an important consideration....I'm not familiar with the others mentioned but I think they are a little thicker than the Patagonia offerings. You might need a slightly warmer base layer with these compared to some of the others, but I prefer this to overheating.

[Alpaholic]

I have the gamma MX hoodie...two BIG thumbs up. I have two other softshells and nothing gets worn as much as the gamma. That said, there are a ton of good products out there but you can't go wrong if you follow these suggestions:

 

1)MAKE SURE IT HAS A HOOD! This is a must. I can't explain it any better than Andy so I'll just quote him:

 

"Do you suppose soft shell should have a hood?

If not, and you're an outdoor activist, then it isn't soft shell. If it doesn't have a hood, as soon as it starts to rain or snow you'll be reaching for your shell, therefore, it isn't doing what a soft shell should. Just take a look at those fancy 'soft shell' jackets that feature water-resistant zippers and no hood? What's the point? To stop wind, I don't think so, no it's to give that top end look without that top end performance a hood would give. Why no hood? Well hoods are a waste of space when you're playing golf, sitting in your Mondeo on the M25, or wearing it under your Barber jacket. Sure a hood adds bulk and makes it harder to make a nice 'smart' collar design but this is soft shell, not soft as shite, it's designed to do the job as a fully working shell. "

- http://www.psychovertical.com/?thebestsoftshell

 

 

2)GET THE RIGHT FABRIC! Otherwise you're waisting your time. Power Shield is the fabric used on both the Gamma MX and the REI Mistral and the REI One and a few others. It's great stuff. So are the various Schoeller products (although schoeller dynamic is quite thin) and patagonia has good proprietary stuff (the figure four is sweet though not very warm, but you might not need warm). If you stick to these fabrics, you are off to a good start. Be ware of anything that says it's a softshell but has some kind of laminate that makes it waterproof. It's not going to breath like a softshell should and you will have simply bought a very heavy (and hot) rain jacket (I'm pretty sure gore-softshell falls into this category, supposedly it breaths worse than XCR but I've never used the stuff).

 

3(but probably should have been 1))GET A JACKET THAT FITS YOU! This is probably the most important point. If you're using it climbing, it's got to perform. In my oppinion, this is what makes the Gamma MX worth the 299 and the mistral or one not worth the cost in gas to drive to REI. Things to considder are, does it rise up when I reach over my head? Will the waist stay put under a harness (the REI products will not...look for a bit of a droop in the back like the gamma MX has)? Does it conform to your body (marketed as 'athletic fit') enough so that when you have a harness and pack and rack on you're not going to feel like you're wearing your baby blanket or a cardboard box?

 

Spend the money up front (or find a screamin' deal on some top notch gear) and you WILL be stoked. Go cheap and you'll think everyone on this forum just has stock in this stuff.

[dbconlin]

gamma mx would be more of a winter softshell, a little warmer, and therefore not as versatile. probably excellent for ice climbing though.

 

patagonia fig. 4/ready mix are in my opinion the perfect softshell. very versatile. very breathable. moderate stretch. minimally insulative. very quick drying. as light as soft shells get. durable. minimal. hood or no hood. very weather repellent.

 

don't know much about the others.

[Jedi]

Just remember jackets like the Houdini, Marmot Ion, Wild Things Epic have hoods that do NOT fit over helmets. I wish the ready Mix was lighter.

Talking about fit, it amazes me that so jackets are the same size in the waist that they are in the chest. I have a couple older patagonia jackets that have a waist lines that HUGE! Te jacket ends up pulling out from under the harness and balloning over the harness.

jedi

[i_like_sun]

" I have the gamma MX hoodie...two BIG thumbs up. I have two other softshells and nothing gets worn as much as the gamma."

 

Me too. Actually.

 

The Gamma fits better than any garmet I have. Its tapered, which, if you have decently wide shoulders, makes a HUGE difference in the comfort and style. The hood fits perfectly over my helmet, and can also cinch down with the cuff to make a mummy tube. This gets used every day! The jacket is knarly enough to withstand pretty sever conditions, but breaths so well that you never get too warm. Plus, it just looks so dope! Which afterall, is a major issue when you're throwing down $350.

 

I also have the Patagonia Core-skin from 4 years ago, and the OR......something....

I'm not a fan of the Patagoochy anymore, simply because I've gained bulk in my shoulders since I got it, and it doesn't fit anymore. Its a little less breathable than the others, so it tends to feel a bit warmer. Fantastic product and quality though, and if it fits you, youre' set.

I'd say that the Outdoor Recearch jacket is super good quality, highly functional, and extremely comfortable. It does not have a hood, which I actually like for winter type activities. That way, you can wear your hardshell over it when its super cold and windy, then layer off when you need to.

 

All in all, I'm still the biggest Arcteryx fan ever. You pay more, but you get a garmet that, well, you'd have children with if you could! You'll fall in love with it and never want to wear anything else. EVER.

[Tanner]

I would have to put my vote in on the arcteryx. I've had a Gamma SV(thicker,no hood)for the past 5 years and nearly lived in it. Its been treeplanting with me, climbing, mountainering, mountain biking. I even use it over my wetsuit rafting/canoeing in the winter. I have a brand new TNF apex jacket as well but my beatup gamma is still #1

 

 

As for the hood discussion, I've never felt the need for a hooded soft shell. If my ears are cold on goes a touque or my hooded down jacket, same goes for rain if its really pouring I put on a hardshell W/ a hood.

 

Besides hoods restrict vision, add bulk make the jacket harder to layer and get full of snow, water, tree stuff if not on your head.

[jared_j]

I have an Arcteryx Alpha Comp hoody. It is similar to the Gamma MX only not lined with whatever insulation the gamma has; it is only shell material. In addition, the hood and tops of the arms are waterproof fabric, while the remainder of the jacket is breathable. This makes it a little more protective in rain, still as breathable as a softshell (in my opinion), and lighter - weight than the Gamma MX.

[EscalarK2]

I personally use the Patagonia R1 Pullover as my softshell. In the summer time, all you need to bring with is a t-shirt, R1 Pullover (expedition weight, or similar), Lightweight down jacket, and a lightweight waterproof jacket. You can pretty much be comfrotable in all conditions with those layers, and they all weigh less then most softshell jackets. I do own a ready mix, but hardly use it, it is usually the odd layer out. I found the ready mix, will abosrb water at the same rate as my R1, but my R1 is warmer when it is dry. I only have a hood on the waterproof jacket, beanies any other time. I have only found softshell jackets of use when I am climbing in desert like conditions. Which is not typically found in the cascades.

[Jedi]

" I have the gamma MX hoodie...two BIG thumbs up. I have two other softshells and nothing gets worn as much as the gamma."

 

Me too. Actually.

 

The Gamma fits better than any garmet I have. Its tapered, which, if you have decently wide shoulders, makes a HUGE difference in the comfort and style. The hood fits perfectly over my helmet, and can also cinch down with the cuff to make a mummy tube. This gets used every day! The jacket is knarly enough to withstand pretty sever conditions, but breaths so well that you never get too warm. Plus, it just looks so dope! Which afterall, is a major issue when you're throwing down $350.

 

I also have the Patagonia Core-skin from 4 years ago, and the OR......something....

I'm not a fan of the Patagoochy anymore, simply because I've gained bulk in my shoulders since I got it, and it doesn't fit anymore. Its a little less breathable than the others, so it tends to feel a bit warmer. Fantastic product and quality though, and if it fits you, youre' set.

I'd say that the Outdoor Recearch jacket is super good quality, highly functional, and extremely comfortable. It does not have a hood, which I actually like for winter type activities. That way, you can wear your hardshell over it when its super cold and windy, then layer off when you need to.

 

All in all, I'm still the biggest Arcteryx fan ever. You pay more, but you get a garmet that, well, you'd have children with if you could! You'll fall in love with it and never want to wear anything else. EVER.

 

 

 

Man this MX hoody is well loved. Why is there little love for the Alpha Comp. It's 4oz lighter, waterproof just on the shoulders (where moisture sits).

 

 

Jedi

[i_like_sun]

The Alpha Comp is rad too.

 

Perhaps a better summer softy than the Gamma.......

[MtnManMatt]

Arcteryx Gamma MX Hoody/Salopettes are my winter ice setup - which i wear 99% of the time here in MT. The Powershield material they're made of is advertised as 98% windproof, and although the MX line is made of a lighter weight Powershield it is still more of a winter material.

 

Schoeller? on the other hand is much more breathable. I have a Cloudveil Serendipity which i don't wear nearly as much and seems less durable than the Powershield. But i also am a gov slave during the summer and unemployed during the winter, so my use is skewed.

[G-spotter]

" I have the gamma MX hoodie...two BIG thumbs up. I have two other softshells and nothing gets worn as much as the gamma."

 

Me too. Actually.

 

The Gamma fits better than any garmet I have. Its tapered, which, if you have decently wide shoulders, makes a HUGE difference in the comfort and style. The hood fits perfectly over my helmet, and can also cinch down with the cuff to make a mummy tube. This gets used every day! The jacket is knarly enough to withstand pretty sever conditions, but breaths so well that you never get too warm. Plus, it just looks so dope! Which afterall, is a major issue when you're throwing down $350.

 

I also have the Patagonia Core-skin from 4 years ago, and the OR......something....

I'm not a fan of the Patagoochy anymore, simply because I've gained bulk in my shoulders since I got it, and it doesn't fit anymore. Its a little less breathable than the others, so it tends to feel a bit warmer. Fantastic product and quality though, and if it fits you, youre' set.

I'd say that the Outdoor Recearch jacket is super good quality, highly functional, and extremely comfortable. It does not have a hood, which I actually like for winter type activities. That way, you can wear your hardshell over it when its super cold and windy, then layer off when you need to.

 

All in all, I'm still the biggest Arcteryx fan ever. You pay more, but you get a garmet that, well, you'd have children with if you could! You'll fall in love with it and never want to wear anything else. EVER.

 

 

 

Man this MX hoody is well loved. Why is there little love for the Alpha Comp. It's 4oz lighter, waterproof just on the shoulders (where moisture sits).

 

 

Jedi

 

The Alpha Comp Hoody is one or the other - hardshell or not. Having a jacket that is half hard and half softshell is like having a vehicle that is the front half of a Porsche and the back end of a F-150.

[dbconlin]

" I have the gamma MX hoodie...two BIG thumbs up. I have two other softshells and nothing gets worn as much as the gamma."

 

Me too. Actually.

 

The Gamma fits better than any garmet I have. Its tapered, which, if you have decently wide shoulders, makes a HUGE difference in the comfort and style. The hood fits perfectly over my helmet, and can also cinch down with the cuff to make a mummy tube. This gets used every day! The jacket is knarly enough to withstand pretty sever conditions, but breaths so well that you never get too warm. Plus, it just looks so dope! Which afterall, is a major issue when you're throwing down $350.

 

I also have the Patagonia Core-skin from 4 years ago, and the OR......something....

I'm not a fan of the Patagoochy anymore, simply because I've gained bulk in my shoulders since I got it, and it doesn't fit anymore. Its a little less breathable than the others, so it tends to feel a bit warmer. Fantastic product and quality though, and if it fits you, youre' set.

I'd say that the Outdoor Recearch jacket is super good quality, highly functional, and extremely comfortable. It does not have a hood, which I actually like for winter type activities. That way, you can wear your hardshell over it when its super cold and windy, then layer off when you need to.

 

All in all, I'm still the biggest Arcteryx fan ever. You pay more, but you get a garmet that, well, you'd have children with if you could! You'll fall in love with it and never want to wear anything else. EVER.

 

 

 

Man this MX hoody is well loved. Why is there little love for the Alpha Comp. It's 4oz lighter, waterproof just on the shoulders (where moisture sits).

 

 

Jedi

 

The Alpha Comp Hoody is one or the other - hardshell or not. Having a jacket that is half hard and half softshell is like having a vehicle that is the front half of a Porsche and the back end of a F-150.

 

No it is like having a Subaru instead of a Porsche and a F-150.