Overtraining

[i_like_sun]

Last summer, I sort of damaged myself by doing some very long and hard days without nearly enough calories. I experienced sort of a "metabolic slowdown" as a result, and I had to see some endocrine specialists. Then, in the fall, I got really bad mononucleosis. I am starting to recover, but my endurance is taking a wee while to come back.

I was just curious if anyone else out there has dealt with extreme athletic burnout before, and if so, what was your experience?! The docs say to keep my activity up, just not to over do it. This is actually very hard for someone who has been in phenomenal shape before, because I keep thinking that I can handle more than I can! Call it exercise addiction or whatever, but life just isn't complete if you can't workout hard and climb hard! Peace.

[rob]

OK, I'll bite.

 

Working out hard and pushing it is great. Pushing yourself until you break is crazy. Can't you tell the difference? That's what you need to figure out. If you can't tell when you need to throttle down, then you're gonna hurt yourself, and then you won't be able to climb hard.

 

Listen to your body; work it hard, back off when you need to, and keep the calories pouring in. What's your workout schedule? How hard do you work it? When do you rest?

 

You mention "exercise addiction".... I get stir-crazy if I don't exercize every day, too. Pick a light workout routine to do on off-days, even if it's just a few mile jog or something. I always give myself a complete rest at least every 5 days, or when I feel like I need it. If I get restless, I'll go on a light jog for a mile or two. Skip rope and watch a climbing vid.

 

If you feel weak, something in your routine/diet is off. My $0.02

[i_like_sun]

Hey, thanks for the reply!

 

I guess the hardest thing for me, as I said above, is simply realizing that I'm having to [ease] back into the athletic scene. Just several months ago, I was lifting weights five days a week while going to school, and weaving in running, biking and climbing wherever I could. My big mistake was simply not to plan out adequate rest and CALORIES. Now, after so many months of basically having to "stop", I'm simply just trying to listen to my system, and do as much as I can without ending up crashed out again. Its a bloody fine line though! If I can do this right, I'm hoping to be back to normal by mid-spring.

[downfall]

Like already said here, listen to your body.

 

But when your body tells you its too much you typically can start to address this through diet. Don't just add empty calories.

 

Check out some of the crossfit info on rest (as they train super hard) and diet (they recommend the zone) and I think it will help you out.

 

Stear away from processed carbs and balance your protein, carbs and esp fat. If you are training like you explain you probably should be training your body to be a fat burner but your body can't burn fat if you are feeding it cliff bars and gatorade all day. Probably plays a role in why you are never are able to recover.

 

www.crossfit.com or PM me if you have specific questions.

 

[i_like_sun]

Yes, nutrition!

 

I eat a very balanced diet, high in protein, complex carbs, and only "healthy" fats. I simply struggle to get ENOUGH calories at the right TIMES. Its getting better though.

Thanks for the replies.

[Sherri]

...I'm hoping to be back to normal by mid-spring.

 

 

I know where you're coming from--if I'm not doing SOMETHING which physically challenges me, I just don't feel "alive"--but the necessity for truly listening to your body cannot be underestimated, unless you want to put yourself on the path to a chronic injury cycle.

 

 

If you see being healthy, or "normal" as a fine line, that could be a red flag.

 

Rules #9 and 10 of Being Human: Life will give you lessons. They will be repeated until you learn them.

[JB Guero]

Just curious, what was not "adequate" calories? Did you eat before and during your activities? Take Gu?

 

My big mistake was simply not to plan out adequate rest and CALORIES.

[billcoe]

Last summer, I sort of damaged myself by doing some very long and hard days without nearly enough calories. I experienced sort of a "metabolic slowdown" as a result, and I had to see some endocrine specialists. Then, in the fall, I got really bad mononucleosis. I am starting to recover, but my endurance is taking a wee while to come back.

I was just curious if anyone else out there has dealt with extreme athletic burnout before, and if so, what was your experience?! The docs say to keep my activity up, just not to over do it. This is actually very hard for someone who has been in phenomenal shape before, because I keep thinking that I can handle more than I can! Call it exercise addiction or whatever, but life just isn't complete if you can't workout hard and climb hard! Peace.

 

Damn, I've never even heard of this before. NOT that I would ever have to worry 'bout overtraining.

 

Unless it was overtraining in a beer hall with my right elbow having lifting glass issues.

 

That might be an issue.

 

That was a worthless post. Sorry dude, I'll try better next time.

 

But how about fleshing out the issue you faced and what happened to you. I'm genuinely curious and interested.

[i_like_sun]

Worthless post, huh?

 

Well, I'll put it this way:

After the last of my "masochistic outings", within 3 weeks I went from 160lbs @ 5% BF, to 145lbs @ 2-3% BF. Not good. I definately did not plan this!

I consulted a sport medicine doc., had a bunch of blood drawn, and found out that my endocrine system was acting super wierd! Namely my Testosterone to Cortisol ratios, and reduced thyroid function. My doc. basically compared my condition to someone who had been in a concentration camp for a few months, and said that it was a severe case of Overtraining induced wasting. My body went into survival mode, and slowed down all anabolic processes in order to keep the vitals going.

There is another twist however. Somewhere along the line I picked up the Epstein Barr virus, and developed REALLY bad Mononucleosis. To shorten the story, I ignored being sick, and got even worse.

Fast forward 3.5 months: I'm slowly picking up my activities again. Basically building on strength right now. No long runs until the system says "OK".

In regards to JB Guero's post, my calories on climbs usually come from tortillas, nuts, dried fruit, tuna fish, whey protein powder, and super rich hot chocolate. I've never used GU, but I'm definately re-thinking everything.

Is there anyone who out there who has experienced "burnout"? I'd be phsyched to hear about it.

[StreetBoss]

I've been in what you call phenominal shape as well, and convinced myself I was on the cutting edge of training. I was staying away from anything "unnatural" or from anything that had "chemicals" so as not to hurt my body. Yeah body fat was at minimal levels and had wonderful benefits.

 

But I couldn't keep up with it and it seems that the folks I know who've had the same experience have something that breaks the cycle of training. Mine was getting married. Your's was getting sick.

 

The funny thing...I've put on (what I would call) a few extra pounds but I feel so much better. Rest, a balanced diet and a stable life has served me well. Good luck.

[billcoe]

Damn. Glad you pulled put of that tailspin. Almost sounds like a Karen Carrpenter kind of thing.

 

BTW, I was talking about my post being of no value, not yours. This is a totally new subject for me, never heard of it.

 

Thanks

[brukb]

Real "overtraining" is a real, yet medically ambiguous issue. There are several lab test that may support a diagnosis, but in and of themselves have not proven to be conclusive evidence. It takes a clinician familiar with this kind of issue to accurately diagnose and deal with it. I'm a climber, physical therapist and coach to climbers, triathletes, cyclists and runners. I have walked in your shoes. Couple years ago I had a mini-epic on Liberty Ridge (TR on this site somewhere), two weeks later got hit by a car on my bike, then two weeks later did a 1/2 Ironman triathlon. Long story shortened; My body was in a critically "overtrained" state. Normal exercise wouldn't help, inactivity was worse. I had to devote a solid 6 months to active recovery ( I did a metabolic exercise test to find the appropriate intensity for this ), with a focus on stress reduction, quality sleep, and proper diet. I had always thought I could just work my way through any physical ailment, but that kicked my ass for quite a while.

 

I went to see Dr. Emily Cooper at Seattle Performance Medicine, she helped me out quite a bit. I was so impressed that I started performing some of the same testing services myself. I had to pay for her services out of pocket, insurance didn't cover it, that was the only downfall.

 

Check her out, pm me if you have questions.

 

Cheers,

Bruk Ballenger

[i_like_sun]

Hey thanks man!

 

Yes, this whole shebackle is taking a very long time. I find that too much exercise kicks my ass, but too little seems to make me feel even worse! I've been working with a sports medicine guy in Bellingham, and a naturopath who has background in endocrinology. For the time being, these docs have me on some low dose hormone replacement, which is having some positive impact. I'm also being as religious about sleep patterns and stress management as I can. Its tough.

 

The amazing (and actually very interesting) thing to me, is how my body literally "stopped", or nearly shut down with this. Before this year, I was virtually "invincible" when it came to massive quantities of high intensity exercise. My buddies and family all call me the "sled-dog".

How did you know when things were starting to turn around? I'm trying not to obsess about it, but man, I REALLY want to be healthy for this spring and summer. I realize that I need to be careful with this though.

 

Since you said that you are a PT, I thought I'd tell you that I'm majoring at WWU in Pre-PT/Pre-med, and it is honestly very difficult to "take it easy" when I'm surrounded by all my extremely fit and active buddies! Not to mention all the climbers on campus..........jeeze......

I'm rationalizing myself into sanity by telling myself that when it comes time to being the best physician or PT possible, I can look back on all this as a great learning experience to share with patients. What better lesson about balance in life than actually going through this.

 

Thanks for your post. It feels good to know that I'm not the only one out there who has drowned the pooch!

 

[brukb]

You can use results from certain lab tests to help identify when you are recovering, such as cortisol responses to certain levels of exercise intensity.

You should seriously consider doing an exercise metabolic/VO2 test to tell you exactly what intensity your aerobic exercise workouts should be performed at, and use a heart rate monitor to make sure you stay at that recovery intensity. Follow up metabolic tests can also help identify when you are ready to bump up the workload.

The most difficult thing for most endurance athletes (and climbers are endurance athletes)who find themselves in an overtrained state is the psychological difficulty and discipline of prolonged LOW intensity exercise, which often means a lot of exercising on your, since workouts with buddies tend to evolve into competitive, higher intensity sessions.

[i_like_sun]

Seattle Performance Medicine? Emily Cooper?

 

I'll look into it.

[archenemy]

Hope this isn't too late, but overtraining is absolutely a possibility--whether it is diagnosed or not. When your body shuts down like that, you know you are there.

 

And listening to your body won't protect you. If you train hard enough (which obviously you do), your brain has learned to override any "stop" messages. Then to top it off, your endorphins will make you feel good even while you are over your limit. I think that people who have not experienced this personally cannot understand how driving, intense, and wonderful this experience is. It's also destructive, unfortunately, and the fallout/comedown sucks.

 

I think your plan to go to see this doc is a good one--good luck to you! I hope you'll post what you learn for others to read and learn.

[i_like_sun]

Holy crap man, you've hit the f**king nose! Without understating in any way, I have lost all ability to "feel" or "listen" to my own system's stop signals. It used to be that I'd just get super tired and sore. Now, I can still get sore and tired, but it almost doesn't matter. I can still keep going! As you said above, unless one has been through this, there really is no way of explaining it to others so they understand. In that way, this problem is a major bitch. There are no physical/visual signs. People just say "eat and sleep this weekend, you'll be better on Monday"; not so easy.

 

This doc in Seattle has me pretty nailed. She specializes with athletes, and knows all of the physiological parameters of overtraining. So, I'm going to start a 6 month rehab program where I work on active recovery and nutrition counseling. This experience has been amazing. In all honesty, I can say with experience that dealing with broken bones is way easier by comparison!

 

Archenemy: have been through this before?

[archenemy]

Yup. Been a while though. I've done it two times, about ten years apart. Unlike you, I am not smart enough to learn the first time.

[Sherri]

Not sure if this will be helpful, but just in case: After a muscular meltdown due to overtraining(running), I began seeing a PT who did somatic release.

 

I had pretty much blown every muscle from my QL to down to my ankles, and the part that scared the hell out of me was I didn't know what I had done or how it happened. Seemed to come "out of the blue."

 

Long story short, the somatic release was a good road for me to go down treatment-wise because it has made me aware of how to communicate with my muscles again, rather than just use and use and use them till they no longer have anything to say.

 

Part of the somatic approach is about "waking up" muscles which have been chronically spasmed and therefore no longer responsive to things like registering pain or consciously being able to relax them.

 

It also "resets" them back to their full range of motion(or close) instead of being chronically shortened.

 

Anyway, for me this was only one piece of the puzzle in getting back to where I can do all the things I enjoy, without injuring myself, but it was a significant piece.

 

Perhaps it's something worth bringing up to your doc, if you guys haven't already covered that ground. Different things work better for different people, but might be worth investigating.

 

Best wishes on your journey to health and healthy living.

 

Sherri

[p_tapley]

bum deal man. I went through something very, very similar around six years ago. the muscle wasting you've experienced is the goocher. you need to face it - you're not well and have to take time off. trying to rush recovery will only slow the process.

 

perhaps the "active recovery" approach will work for you, but again, seeing your mention of such significant weight loss and having had the same experience, I'm sorry to say that I'm doubtful.

 

now, I'm not a doctor, let alone a specialist in the field, but I really believe that the most important factor in recovery is going to be the psychology. you need to get to a point where you're ok with some time off.

 

it sucks, I know. but you need to take time off for real or you'll only experiene a series of false-starts and relapses. it took me a good 2 1/2 years to figure this out (yes, fucked up sick the whole while) before I finally found the right doc (after a number of mis-diagnosises) who's a competitive endurance athlete and has experienced this himself (along with the relapses).

 

once I came to terms with not being well, I realized that my recovery would have been much shorter had I simply recognized the issue sooner. you're only costing yourself time and suffering by procrastinating. trust me man - I know what you're going through and I know it aint pretty.

 

I'll say it again...you need to take a real chunk of time off. I needed to virtually quite climbing for a couple of years before I could even think about making gains and training during that time was simply out of the question.

 

on the bright side (yes, there is one), the last few years have been up and an up. for me, it was long slow distance and a fresh base that brought me back. climbing lightly the last two years or so and then taking off like wildfire this fall lead to a banner ice season. now I'm as strong as ever and easily twice as smart.

 

this is fast becoming a ramble, so I'll leave it at that for now. just remember, the upshot is you need to put the brakes on and you can get better.

 

feel free to pm me if you'd like to discuss this further.

Edited March 15, 2007 by p_tapley

[Blake]

i would recomend increased intake of sausage, cheese, and if you can, cinnamon rolls.... on all upcoming mountain trips.

 

However, the Mike Layton alpine diet of Cigrettes and Whiskey has proven fairly successful for him!

Edited March 15, 2007 by Blake

[Chad_A]

About three or four years ago, I encountered some of the same. Any kind of exercise was addictive. I started trail running, and couldn't get enough. Before I knew it, I was doing some pretty good mileage, and just about all of it involved some sort of uphill.

 

Then I started bike commuting to work; the place I worked at, at the time, was a pretty good hillclimb...so that was added on top of the trail running.

 

On top of that, I'd do two or three days a week at the rock gym.

 

It took a while, but it all caught up with me. After a year or so, I'd dropped from a paltry 145 lbs, to a downright sickly 129-130 (I'm 6 feet tall). I'm guessing I probably had some variation of the same endocrine issues that you had, but my Doctor never did find it. I ended up with general malaise, and swollen ankles. Compounding everything was the fact that the trail running overtraining ruined my achilles tendons, and I ended up with plantar fascitis, as well. I ran too far, too fast, too soon, and without consulting someone who could fit me with a running shoe that fit my running gait.

 

This, in turn, led to months of general rest, and I was the most depressed I'd ever been. My mind was telling me to "train! train! train!", but I knew I couldn't. I felt lazy, floppy, and out of shape.

 

Slowly things morphed, and I regained confidence and a respect for rest. I ended up back at 155-160 lbs, eventually, and now I feel very good, and even I notice I don't look so damn gaunt. I may not be as hardcore as I once was, but I strongly feel like my longevity will benefit from it.

 

Now, I have a workout schedule that works for me; but mainly, if I'm tired, starving, or just worn out, I LISTEN, answer the call, and I'm just fine.

 

Hang in there, and thanks for sharing the issue on the board, here.

 

 

[i_like_sun]

Thanks for the replies! I am for the first time in months starting to come to grips with this thing. At first, I just got real pissed off and pushed myself even harder. Yes, stupid. But I've never truly been through this before, and in the past exercise has seemed to fix ALL of my problems! I'm seriously working on this.....

 

For now, I'm entrusting myself to Seattle Performance Medicine, and am following their strict protocol of very low-intensity active recovery for six months. The program makes sense. Simply sitting on the couch for months isn't going to work. I NEED to do SOME movement. Even if it is short walks. Then under doctor supervision, the intensity and volume will slowly be increased over time.

 

For the future though, I am beginning to see the bright side of this ordeal. As p_tapley says "now I'm as strong as ever and easily twice as smart". My hope is that this will happen for me as well! I'm determined to stop fucking up. Thanks again guys. This forum is helping me to stay optimistic and keep some friggin' sanity...

 

R

 

 

 

 

[i_like_sun]

Thanks Blake, that was a super useful post.

[Sherri]

R,

 

It's great that you are already becoming aware of the silver lining(it's hard to believe there really is one when you are in the midst of the injury cycle). A good attitude will carry you far through this, and you WILL end up better(and smarter ) than before

 

When I used to think I could get away with pushing my body beyond its limits, sure I was "fit", but very tight, tired, and unbalanced in my exercise choices(running/walking/weights).

 

After two years of healing and learning a gazillion lessons, I am not only back to running(and doing longer trail runs than I could ever do before), but my routine now includes biking and climbing. For active rest/recovery, I practice yoga and tai chi and substitute swimming for a couple of my run days.

 

I know myself well enough to recognize my tendency to overdo anything I commit to, so it was an important strategy for me to incorporate a balance of activities. The swimming part was recommended by my PT, and was probably the one I most resisted because I was so "compressed" that I seemed to sink. But, now it's becoming more comfortable and the benefits really are a payoff for sticking it out.

 

Keep that positive, pro-active attitude, and you'll get to where you want to be. And it'll be better than where you came from.

 

Good luck!