Is this OK?

[Alpinfox]

 

I misunderstood your fear initially, but as you restated it I understand and agree. However, that has nothing to do with genetic engineering.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think patents on living creatures is wrong and genetic engineering of agricultural stocks for profit is a bad idea; just not for the same reasons that you do apparently.

 

People in SE Asia and Africa have already been screwed by Monsanto and other large scale Western agribusiness companies and it will continue to happen, but it's not necessarily genetic engineering that is to blame.

 

 

[AlpineK]

On the news they were saying they weren't planning on feeding people the cloned animals. They just want to use the cloned animals to make the animals that are bread for food.

 

No clone food just clone offspring food.

[archenemy]

You've gotta start somewhere. This is a slippery slope.

 

 

As for starvation: all modern starvation epidemics are the result of politics, NOT the result of too little food.

[tvashtarkatena]

...That said, genetic engineering of sterile crops by for-profit companies (e.g. Monsanto) is very worrisome; not because of the "genetic boogeyman" problem, but from the standpoint of global economics and food security.

 

I share that worry. When all the "family-owned" farms are gone and all held by private corporations, who then decides who eats and who starves?

 

Oh, but there are. We buy 1/4 beef a year from a family farm...all natural. My wife's sister and family are shareholders in a coop farm.

 

Small farms are making a huge comeback as people realize just how shitty the food we've been eating is (for us, and the environment). If that trend sounds good to any of you, make your food buying choices accordingly.

 

Worried about surburban sprawl. Eat your view (by locally, to keep that farmland viable.)

 

I agree with JayB: buyer beware...as long as there is adequate and accurate food labeling (one of the best things, if not THE best, the FDA ever did.). Sure, there is some abuse of the 'natural' and 'organic' labels ('cane' juice?)...but the savvy consumer tends to quickly catch them. As for the unsavvy consumer, well, that's cool too. Eat what ya want...but don't sue McDonalds because you have to call Roto Rooter to clear out your arteries.

Edited December 29, 2006 by tvashtarkatena

[joblo7]

beef will kill you. they absorb toxins

[JayB]

There is absolutely no difference whatsoever between food products generated by cloned livestock, and food products produced by "normal" livestock, which have themselves been subjected to thousands of years of massive genetic manipulation. None. Please read this book:

 

 

Before speculating any further.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The American public should be far more concerned about the risks that overconsumption of food has for their health, which are several orders of magnitude greater than those presented by any mode of selective breeding.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[counterfeitfake]

But think, Pax, to a not too distant future, where only The Almighty Dollar reigns, and you are a major stockholder in Monsanto/ADM/whoever. Some countries will have lots of money with which to feed their hungry; others will not. To which country will you sell your wares?

 

I must be missing the point. How is this different from right now, or any other point in history? Some have more wealth than others. Some starve because of it. What is the new issue?

 

Tvashtarkatena makes an excellent point: in our economy the best thing you can do is vote with your dollar. I think a lot of people talk big about this kind of thing, theoretically, and then go and buy Brand X just like before. I think some people don't even understand what they're doing.

 

To this end, empowering the consumer to make choices that are in line with their beliefs, I'd support the use of some kind of "clone free" sticker. EXCEPT, I think the primary purpose would be to feed on the fear uncertainty and doubt- people are ignorant and anything new seems scary. A clone is a genetic copy of an organism. It doesn't seem like there should be any reason cloned products are dangerous. I'm all for gathering evidence one way or the other, but it seems obvious to me which way I should believe in lieu of any evidence.

[tvashtarkatena]

One of the best way to vote with not many dollars is to grow your own veggies, which can be done year round in Western Washington. There is a learning curve, but once set up it's no more time consuming than shopping. Space usually isn't a problem, we've got a 200 sq ft garden on a city lot and it produces like crazy. What store carries 20 kinds of lettuce? Even the natural beef we bought directly from the farmer was only $4.50/lb...not exactly breaking the bank. Buy a breadmaker and you'll have enough $$$ leftover for all the good wine and organic food you can eat...and your food will taste much, much better.

 

Occasional trips to Dicks and Taco Bell are necessary, however, to remain connected to the common man.

[TREETOAD]

There is nothing wrong with cloaning cloaning cloaning

[Cobra_Commander]

Having low genetic diversity in your herd puts them at risk to catastrophic loss from disease. There is the oft-referenced study of cheetah populations at risk from a small pool of code. You don't know what you don't know. Except for some here who seem to be experts on what they don't know.

[JayB]

Yes - these are stunning revelations that have hitherto escaped anyone's notice.

 

I personally think that when you have a technology that has significant, obvious benefits and advantages, and has been deemed safe by the people most qualified to render such judgments, the smart thing to do is to overlook those benefits and shelve the technology based on the concerns brought up by the unqualified about fundamentally unknowable risks that may or may not materialize at some point in the future. Take vaccinations for example - we'd all have been much better off if Edward Jenner had kept *that* particular genie in the bottle. And that transistor-thingy, too. We may rue the day that we let our short-sighted fixation on it's obvious advantages overwhelm our dread of the remote and unknowable risks that they might one day present to humanity, and proceeded to introduce them into the world, despite not really knowing whether or not one-day all of mankind might be destroyed by autonomous toaster-robots that they might eventually spawn.

[counterfeitfake]

That is true. A plan to use cloning should take into account what level of genetic diversity is necessary. I think the question of whether cloning is good for the stock population is not entirely related to the question of whether cloned products are safe for consumption.

[Cobra_Commander]

as usual it's important to yield to the resident superstar on the issue. I think all discussion can terminate now.

 

Yes - these are stunning revelations that have hitherto escaped anyone's notice. (snipping out the rest of the b.s.)

[JayB]

No - seriously, this is big news. You mean to tell me that technology has benefits *and* risks, and that you have to weigh the two? Someone had better convene a seminar to break the news of this revelation to all of the agricultural biologists out there.

 

 

[counterfeitfake]

armchair science is almost as good as armchair climbing!

[Dechristo]

I wish my folks had employed a geneticist that i may have been born with armchair arms permanently attached beneath my arms

[Dechristo]

and an ottoman under my heels

[TREETOAD]

A river or sea otterman

[counterfeitfake]

THE NODDERMAN

[quicker_than_ewe]

THE NODDERMAN

 

What about all the other nodder CLONES????? Are they OK???

[archenemy]

armchair science is almost as good as armchair climbing!

Except that you burn more calories while armchair climbing. That way, you can eat more mini-me pigs.

[joblo7]

already, multinational giants are controlling countries with loans. they decide who eats already.all countries need to protect themselves against this new/old form of governing. if we didn't owe trillions maybe we could help darfur etc. or we would not need to steal iraq 's oil etc..

[JayB]

This explains the inverse correlation between direct foreign investment per capita and hunger, malnutrition, etc.

 

Credible sources have informed me that a cabal of corporate interests has formed a lending syndicate headed by Dick Cheney, which intends to force third-world nations borrow immense sums of money under onerous terms in order to buy cloned livestock that will produce meat and milk products that when consumed, will make them overcome with the desire to further impoverish themselves by spending their meager-life savings on Halliburton logo items.

 

 

 

 

[joblo7]

carlysle group?

[joblo7]

cloning is like implants, unnecessary.