kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 So, I have been under the impression that rope manufactures put the rope life (how many falls etc……) on the rope so they are not liable and sell more ropes. I have found that ropes, if properly cared for, will last way longer than one or two seasons, or more than the manufactures recommendation. For example: I have this Mammut 10.5 60 m. This rope has at least 30 to 40 5 to 15 foot falls, maybe 2 or 3 falls past 15 feet. I have used it to jug a couple of times. I would still use this rope to lead on. Ropes last forever…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I think the number is the number of big falls back-to-back that the manufacturer will guarantee the rope to withstand. I've been told by guys who seemed to know what they were talking about that when the rope is allowed to "rest" it regains it's elasticity and is good for that number of back-to-back falls again. I dunno if this is commonly understood to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) I've been told by guys who seemed to know what they were talking about that when the rope is allowed to "rest" it regains it's elasticity and is good for that number of back-to-back falls again. Are they stating the rope "heals itself", thats rad. That means I can go get my first rope I bought over 10 years ago and take some screamers on it. Edited December 13, 2006 by kevbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil K Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 How about shelf-life? I've heard that ropes loose a certain amount of their strength just over time, even under good storage conditions. Anyone have any objective information on this subject? Of course ther are those who just keep beating their ropes forever, but I prefer to err on the conserviative side. I'm funny that way about my ropes. How long can a gently, though well used rope be safely kept, assuming it has no cuts, the sheath is still in pretty good shape, no whippers..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Are they stating the rope "heals itself", thats rad. Well, kind of... I'm under the impression that what actually breaks the rope in a fall is the shock force it absorbs once it's elasticity has been exhausted. So anything that decreases the force-absorbing capabilities would be bad. That could be degradation over time or elimination of stretch from recent previous falls. Hopefully someone who actually knows what they're talking about will join the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 I too have heard about the “shelf life” theory. Gravity will eventually destroy everything. Why would it be different with ropes? A well cared for rope will last forever, although I too go on the conservative side, buying a new rope every spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Hopefully someone who actually knows what they're talking about will join the conversation. That would be nice. Lets ask Pope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flush_Amazing Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 WHAT? The omniscient Kevbone doesn't KNOW something? Why didn't you just make up a fact like you do with all the other questions you've answered on this webpage? Here's your answer: Rope life is 4.8 years assuming the rope is blue. BTW: You only need a rope if you are climbing really hard routes, like 5.12c or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 WHAT? The omniscient Kevbone doesn't KNOW something? Why didn't you just make up a fact like you do with all the other questions you've answered on this webpage? Here's your answer: Rope life is 4.8 years assuming the rope is blue. BTW: You only need a rope if you are climbing really hard routes, like 5.12c or more. Moderators, please show this gentleman to the door. This is a serious thread looking for serious discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 So, I have been under the impression that rope manufactures put the rope life (how many falls etc……) on the rope so they are not liable and sell more ropes. I have found that ropes, if properly cared for, will last way longer than one or two seasons, or more than the manufactures recommendation. For example: I have this Mammut 10.5 60 m. This rope has at least 30 to 40 5 to 15 foot falls, maybe 2 or 3 falls past 15 feet. I have used it to jug a couple of times. I would still use this rope to lead on. Ropes last forever…… If you are talking about fall rating then that refers to the number of falls the rope can withstand in a specific test. It is not a made-up number. The test is very conservative. The actual number of falls the rope would withstand in actual use would be far in excess of the test value. Most ropes wear out in practice from abrasion of the sheath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) The test is very conservative. I agree, but I believe they are so conservative that it gives the impression that you/I would need to buy a new rope long before the rope becomes unsafe. Good selling technique don’t you think? Edited December 13, 2006 by kevbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 check out the following technical information at Beal: dynamic test standards: http://www.bealplanet.com/portail-2006/index.php?page=normes_dynamiques&lang=us lifetime dynamic ropes: http://www.bealplanet.com/portail-2006/index.php?page=duree_vie&lang=us I don't think these recommendations are made purly to sell more ropes - I also believe that consumers repeatedly ask this question. Its important to remember that the UIAA/CE tests are to certify a rope to a minimum standard, not state that this is a ropes maximum abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 consumers repeatedly ask this question. But why is that? Because the manufatures want them to, to get there curiosity up about "how long it will last, how many falls etc....." Then they get to turn around and sell more ropes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Another thing, I will NEVER buy another Beal rope. I have purchased two (thinking I would give the company the benefit of the doubt, after the first one unraveled) in the last 2 years. I have had no luck with them holding up. Mammut rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 .......I can go get my first rope I bought over 10 years ago and take some screamers on it. Check back in later and let us know how that worked out for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmace Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 This rope has at least 30 to 40 5 to 15 foot falls hahaha...ya when you fall 2 feet above your gear dunno if id call that a fall...what your pro's at your knee.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 consumers repeatedly ask this question. But why is that? Because the manufatures want them to, to get there curiosity up about "how long it will last, how many falls etc....." Then they get to turn around and sell more ropes. Kevbone, marketing (in most cases) is driven by the advertiser's desire to address a perceived consumer want/need. Manufacturers make lifetime and use recommendation becauses most consumers factor in product lifetime into a purchasing decision. Also, its well known that petroleum products (like artificial fibers in a rope), off-gas, break-down, and susceptible to uv degradation. And I'be been using Beal ropes exclusively for five years - they've been fine, and I really recommend them for alpine and ice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 This rope has at least 30 to 40 5 to 15 foot falls hahaha...ya when you fall 2 feet above your gear dunno if id call that a fall...what your pro's at your knee.. I would say, if you fall, you fall. If you give the fall a number before you would call it a fall, then your ego has become to large for your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithisheaven Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Another thing, I will NEVER buy another Beal rope. I have purchased two (thinking I would give the company the benefit of the doubt, after the first one unraveled) in the last 2 years. I have had no luck with them holding up. Mammut rules. I will have to chime in and say I have 3 Beals and all mine rule. Have a sweet 9.4 stinger III for the hard stuff & alpine. Quote from Beal website..."Designed for high-level climbers, this is the single rope preferred for very hard routes. Amateurs stand aside…" you know it! I also have 9.7 Booster with a nice low impact force, aroun 7.3kn, that I use for trad. Also a 10.2 Flyer for all around and they all have performed well. The they have a real nice feel on the hand and love the impact force, specially for trad Like all the advantage I can get with the gear. Just my experience with Beal. I am sure other have had different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alasdair Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 The BMC published a study a few years ago that basically stated "ropes dont break". The results of the study in very short form said that it it time to retire your rope when there is a visble problem with it or it becomes too furry or fat to use. The BMC has done a lot of very good research that sadly is not all published online, but an index to some of their articals can be found here. http://www.thebmc.co.uk/safety/tech/tech_res.asp?search=rope&drop_cat=cat_all&drop_type=type_all&submit=Find+Technical+Reports Ade might have a copy of the original artical, or know where to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradclimbguy Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) My last couple of ropes have worn out (been retired) for the following reasons: 60M Beal 10.5 Dry - Lead on this thing for about 4yrs, it finally got stiff and really sun bleached and the sheath was worn in a couple spots. Both ends got the chop from core shots and by now its good only for fixing as a rap line. 60M Beal 10.2 - Lead on this thing for about 3yrs, hundreds of pitches, lots of raps, many falls until it finally lost its elasticity. It then turned into a gym lead rope until it had absolutely no stretch left so it's now in line to become a rug or something. 60M 9.1 dry - separated the sheath from the core after a couple hard trips with it, didn't retire it, but returned it to REI for another one, but I would have retired it otherwise. At one end there was about 10ft of sheath but no core! 65M Yates big Wall rope 10.5 - Not retired yet but only another few walls away from going in the bin. It's currently got about 80 pitches of jugging, no falls, no core shots that I can tell but when it's you the rope and 2500ft of air I start to think another 150 bucks is pretty cheap when it has to hold up to edges and big fall potentials. We only got it in September so I could see retiring some ropes in under a year depending on the use. 60M 9.8 Mammut - Almost forgot this one. Bought it this year. led about 5 pitches on it until lowering over a sharp edge it must have caught an imperfection int eh sheath and completely chopped the entire sheath and part of the core! Returned it to REI and will probably never buy another mammut. My though is my rope is my most important piece of gear and it's all one big judgment call on my part so if I've gotten a core shot or put 200 pitches of jugging on it or it's been around for 5 years all factor into when I retire it. I don't think we can put an exact number on them. I've heard of sport guys taking upwards of 40 big whippers on their lines but then again thats another specific kind of wear totally different from sawing through your line jugging. Personally I like when they take old ropes and test them, thats where I learn the most. Edited December 13, 2006 by tradclimbguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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