tradclimbguy Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Definately not my cup of tea. I remember getting on "Take a Powder" over a couple visits before pulling through to the first bolt. Up and down, up and down until I worked out the really long reach through a couple crappy holds and no feet. For me it's an extra bit of excitement and if I can't make it to the bolt I have backed off until I could come back later and successfully climb the route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Most stick clips are used to clip the first bolt. True, but I have use it in red rocks where I was getting cocky and thought I could cruz this route because I just cruzed the route to the right of it that had number grade less. Well, if it wasn’t for the stick clip. I would have left gear. This circumstance had nothing to do with the first bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltoro Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Heresy at Smith comes to mind. The first bolt is maybe 15ft. to the left of the start and only 9-10ft. off the ground. Routinely (maybve only when I climb it) people stick clip the first bolt, do the traverse rail thing with the belayer keeping them "nice and tight cause they're so close to the ground." The climber peels off the traverse and rockets directly into the belayer who gets pulled up tight, just off the ground making for a beautiful collision.I know this happens because I've done it before. "Doh!" If people don't stick clip and have the belayer spot them, you can avoid this. At the very least, don't take up slack until the climber is almost to that first bolt and spot them instead or have the entourage get off their asses and do something instead of taking up the trail and shouting "Sick Dude!" All that being said, I am a fan of stick clips having had bad ankle injuries in the past but be smart. Just because you're clipped to something above you doesn't mean you're totally safe either and this is an illusion of safety that stick clips might encourage. Vomit Launch also comes to mind. Sketchy to the first bolt with a nasty landing involving potentially tumbling back through the birthing canal. Model Worker comes to mind for a different reason. It's all draws and a gold(?) camalot at the end but good luck using a stick clip to get that first draw up there. That might be more impressive than the climb itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Heresy at Smith comes to mind. The first bolt is maybe 15ft. to the left of the start and only 9-10ft. off the ground. Routinely (maybve only when I climb it) people stick clip the first bolt, do the traverse rail thing with the belayer keeping them "nice and tight cause they're so close to the ground." The climber peels off the traverse and rockets directly into the belayer who gets pulled up tight, just off the ground making for a beautiful collision. Your clearly not standing in the right place if the climber "rockets" into you. And I would agree Heresy is a good example of a good use of a clip. PS: the new guide is calling Heresy 11.c/d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradclimbguy Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Heresy at Smith comes to mind. The first bolt is maybe 15ft. to the left of the start and only 9-10ft. off the ground. Routinely (maybve only when I climb it) people stick clip the first bolt, do the traverse rail thing with the belayer keeping them "nice and tight cause they're so close to the ground." The climber peels off the traverse and rockets directly into the belayer who gets pulled up tight, just off the ground making for a beautiful collision. Your clearly not standing in the right place if the climber "rockets" into you. And I would agree Heresy is a good example of a good use of a clip. PS: the new guide is calling Heresy 11.c/d I'd definately agree on vomit launch. I did that one with no stick clip and boy was it hairy matching on that slopy ledge before pulling over to the bolt. Probably not one of my smartest moments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltoro Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Your clearly not standing in the right place if the climber "rockets" into you. And I would agree Heresy is a good example of a good use of a clip. PS: the new guide is calling Heresy 11.c/d I'm not sure if I quoted the quote correctly or not but whatever. I'm implying that people seem to keep the climber tight and the rope at its shortest which on Heresy means standing basically directly under the bolt. Even if you aren't under the bolt, most belayers, if they have the rope super tight (which they shouldn't but do) get pulled off their feet and swing directly underneath the bolt where they meet the falling climber who is swinging in from the right. The ground there is not exactly level and I (250lbs.) get pulled off my feet if my partner (160lbs.) falls off. I have not stood directly under the bolt and I'm also not even belaying in the future, I'm spotting. Where do you propose the belayer should stand if you were going to keep the climber tight? It seems like until they get to the first bolt, there is no point in belaying them anyways. They're feet are only like 6' off the ground at that point anyways. Again, that's what the entourage* is for. Especially when it's now 11c/d which I'll gladly accept cause it feels that hard for me. *Traditionally you do not get an entourage until you climb V-hard, 5.many, drive the most reliable car or have a really big and shiny rack. I knew the first three were not possible for me so I went for the shiny rack, thus the entourage to fall o...err..spot me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Your clearly not standing in the right place if the climber "rockets" into you. And I would agree Heresy is a good example of a good use of a clip. PS: the new guide is calling Heresy 11.c/d I'm not sure if I quoted the quote correctly or not but whatever. I'm implying that people seem to keep the climber tight and the rope at its shortest which on Heresy means standing basically directly under the bolt. Even if you aren't under the bolt, most belayers, if they have the rope super tight (which they shouldn't but do) get pulled off their feet and swing directly underneath the bolt where they meet the falling climber who is swinging in from the right. The ground there is not exactly level and I (250lbs.) get pulled off my feet if my partner (160lbs.) falls off. I have not stood directly under the bolt and I'm also not even belaying in the future, I'm spotting. Where do you propose the belayer should stand if you were going to keep the climber tight? It seems like until they get to the first bolt, there is no point in belaying them anyways. They're feet are only like 6' off the ground at that point anyways. Again, that's what the entourage* is for. Especially when it's now 11c/d which I'll gladly accept cause it feels that hard for me. I for surly think it is at least 11.c, I have stated that openly from the first time I sent it 3 years ago. As for holding the rope tight??? I stand under the rock almost, under the bolt, but near the rock itself. If you fall without a rope and land on your back, your screwed and may end up going to the hospital. If you fall with a rope attached to you. Then depending where you are on the rail. You stand a chance in only your feet hitting as you swing. I personally would rather have a chance than not. I have lead it both ways, with and without a stick clip. Would rather use one if it around. Either way I love that bolted boulder problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltoro Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I totally agree with the quality of the route. The first time I got on it was after a quick rain and hail storm. We found that wall for cover and then figured we'd check it out since everything else was wet. I was disappointed to see the new guide book kind of trash it if I recall. I think it's a really neat route that is dramatically different than a lot of the other stuff at Smith (crimp, crimp, knob, crimp, crimp). We didn't know it was 11c/d as it wasn't even in the older guidebook we had. Good thing as we probably would have passed it by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 that route's a choss pile...the true line is the one to the right...funny, you can clip the anchor of heresy from shoes... its an ok route, pretty damn short...sure gets a lot of traffic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 that route's a choss pile...the true line is the one to the right...funny, you can clip the anchor of heresy from shoes... its an ok route, pretty damn short...sure gets a lot of traffic... Ru, sooooo many more climbers get on Heresy than shoes, your just pissed cause you cant do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 (edited) You obviously don't know me... I've slipped a looooooong way from my better days, but not that far... Edited December 11, 2006 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Ru, sooooo many more climbers get on Heresy than shoes, your just pissed cause you cant do it. Shit, his 5 year olds probably doing Shoes already. P-L-E-A-S-E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye69 Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Stick clips are a result of poor bolting. Smith being the exception due to the erosion at the base of the walls. My first trip down there I climbed Relelations and even though 5.9, that first bolt is sure a long way up. If a route is bolted, it should always protect a possible injury. If you want to stick clip a route good for you, but you may be missing out on the true rush of climbing. (sport) in the traditional lexicon of climbers, a rappel placed bolt is cheating. clipping a rapp placed bolt is cheating. not stick clipping the cheating bolt placed on aid is everyones perogative. but please dont get it stuck in your own head that some dude is missin out on some killer rush by playin your own games. you wanna killer rush go solo something onsite near your limits. not to diss on you but some folks just dont get it. its all a contrived game we play and it is everyones right to contrive it as they see fit. sport climbin is about safety of the moves. otherwise those dudes could have got a much more killer rush by doin the route groundup with minimal bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.