boots

[timy]

I'm hopeing to go to Alaska 2008. I have been looking at

different ads about Double Plastic boots and others.

I have a tendency toward cold feet and having seen and read different accounts of frostbiten toes I want to make certain I have the proper boot. I know about Onesport and the other strictly high elevation mountain boots but I want somthing that can be used on other peaks and terrain not as

harsh as Alaska. How are mountain boots rated? What degree

of added warmth do ie. purple haze over boots add to a boot?

Kolfach arctis extreme seems to be a good boot but I have heard they are quite bulky. Civetta extreme doesn't appear as bulky but don't look as warm. Any suggestions would be

helpfull. thanks in advance.

[catbirdseat]

If you have a tendency toward cold toes then don't compromise on warmth to get an all-around boot. Get the warmest, best-fitting boot available for Alaska.

[ryland_moore]

Ditto what catbird said. I took my Koflach Artic Expe's up on Denali and had a great time with them. I also wore Denali AT boots lower on the mountain and had no problem with temps and this was in mid-May. I used the 40 below K2 Superlights on summit day and was fine. It can get cold, but you can just buy Intuition liners for any double plastic boot and will be warm enough for the trip. I do not think you have to go for the Onesports unless you plan on climbing a lot of high altitude peaks in the near-future.

 

As long as you are safe and not hangng out in 50-70 mph winds in a big storm, and decide to wait out the weather, you should not have too many problems. Being smart and not pushing it in deteriorating weather can save a lot of fingers and toes, much more so than double plastic boots. And assuming you are doing the West Butt, it is nexto to impossible to get caught out in a serious storm without some warning, so the majority of frostbite victims on that route occur from people pushing too hard, not staying hydrated, and improper equipment (ie. super gaiters instead of overboots, gloves instead of mittens) Good luck....For what it is worth, my partner climbed to the summit in his AT boots with Intuition liners and overboots and had no problems. Just remember, it is always easier to have feet too hot, then feet that are too cold. Also, do not forget to get a boot that fits LARGE! You will need room for your feet to swell at altitude. Get at least a 1/2 size larger. Mine are 1 ful1l size larger and they are perfect for me over 16k or so. If you get boots too constrictive (same as clothing) you are more suseptible to frostbite and other cold injuries.

[pete_a]

ditto what everyone else said....

 

assuming that are you going to denali (and likely the west buttress) you don't have to worry about if your footwear is bulky, there aren't a whole lot of finess moves on that route as long as you can plod one foot in front of the other for hours on end in relative comfort, then don't worry about your boots being clunkers.

 

I was Ryland's partner that used the AT boots. I wanted to use a dynafit binding mounted ski on the lower mountain to save weight, and my Dynafit TLT boots with thermofit liners were only a few ounces heavier than my Koflachs, so I used my Dyna boots. I bought them a little big, and then above 14k I removed my arch supports to give my toes some extra wiggle room.

 

If you are thinking about using skis (and more specifically dynafit bindings) on denali, you should consider a lightweight Dynafit boot...it worked really well up there for me, though the size you end up with may prove to be too roomy to work as a good ski boot around here. I haven't used mine much since but am hanging on to them for future trips up north. I managed to find those two year old TLT4 boots with thermofit liners for about $200, they'd been used a few times, then returned to the shop, so I got them for less than a pair of new Koflachs...check second ascent, ebay, craigslist, you can probably put together a pair of thermofit linered boots for a lot less than you'd expect.

[genepires]

lots of good advice here but i cringe at the idea that "And assuming you are doing the West Butt, it is nexto to impossible to get caught out in a serious storm without some warning,". Seems like one who is a newbie could walk away with a sense of casualness with denali. People die on the west buttress. Lots of people get frostbite. People get caught out in storms, usually trying to get back to camp or back down to less stormy campsites. Professionals get in trouble too. Denali doesn't care who you are.

 

There are lots of people who climb denali with the expensive high altitude boots like millet. A common saying goes, they are expensive but they only cost $80/toe. Is one of your toes worth $80? With all the costs of getting up there, another $400 spent that will increase the chance of you getting up, is trivial.

 

With that, I can good luck with the arctis expe with good supergators. But I don't wear them anywhere else also so I might as well have bought the overkill ones. Who wears arctis expe in the cascades?

[ryland_moore]

Thanks Gene. I am sorry if it came off as casual. I guess what I was saying about the West Butt is if you stay put like you should, then there is very little chance (there is still a slim chance though) of getting caught unaware. I may be bold to say that 90% of all frostbite victims are from those pushing up when they should have stayed put or gone out in weather they should not have. There are exceptions to lost mittens or a quick lenticular coming up that will last 12 to 24 hrs., but with the aid of climbing rangers and access to weather reports both on the mountain and off, a large storm (2-4 days) should not catch anyone unaware except in the freakest of instances.

 

If you are more worried about it, go later in the season in end of June-early July. I like earlier because colder air is typically more stable than the snow dumps you can get there in June.

 

Finally, the mountain makes its own rules and will generate its own weather, so trying to predict the best and warmest time to go is next to impossible. Go with what works for you. If you own the Artis Expe, then take them out on a cold night up on the Muir snowfield and see how they feel. Play with AT boots if you want to ski. Test gear and talk to others. Call guides and see what they recommend for clients. You really will only know the answer to your question once you've tested everything and see what makes you feel comfortable and what you want. I didn't feel like I need the OneSPorts or similar set-up. ANd yes, I will use my Koflachs from time to time in the early spring and winter on Hood, so they do get used more than just once every couple of years on bigger climbs. Gene is right though, son't get complacent with this mountain as it will turn on you, just be prepared and do not look at the camp social scene as meaning this is an easy climb....

[DanielHarro]

light an fast go with Lasportiva Spantik...

[salbrecher]

my partner and i used scarpa vegas with intuition liners and they were warm enough, just barly though. no overboots or supergators. save a fresh pair of socks for summit day. When we topped out on denali at midnight in june it was below -30c (thermometer bottomed out)and 90ishkm/hr winds. we were both extremely dehydrated. Intuitions rule. get a pair. if we didn't get frostbite in those condition i can't see people needing anything more if they have intuitions. you save weight on your boot weight with the intuition liners AND not having to wear overboots and you can wear the same boots for almost any mountain trip. it's a win/win.

Edited December 6, 2006 by salbrecher

[snoboy]

I would think that you might be able to mould the Intuitions with a little extra room (wear thicker sock, larger toe cap etc.) for the Alaska trip, and then remould them a bit snugger after your trip for better performance in milder conditions.

[jonmf76]

Here is another consideration. When I chose my boots, the Scarpa Invernos, I did so for all around use, including tech ice, mountaineering, and general winter glacier stuff/snowshoeing.

 

The reason is that the uppers are flexible and much more comfortable for the slog out or in before or after the climb. But, when laced down tight, are stiff enough for vertical waterfall ice. They are not the platforms that the Koflachs and others might be, but they hold their own.

 

As for Denali, they make a silver foil "high altitude liner" for extreme cold conditions that you can swap out with the regular lace up liner. The only thing I don't like about those is that they don't have laces, just an elastic band thing to squeeze them on your foot. Of course you want to avoid constriction when it is cold, but I didn't like climbing in a boot that felt as firm as a slipper. However, my feet roasted! I am glad I brought both liners, because these silver foil ones were WAY TOO HOT for the lower Kahiltna.

 

So if you plan on doing waterfall ice AND Denali, this boot might be a good one for you to consider.

 

Whenever I used the Koflachs (the older ones, mind you) they just ripped up the front of my shins and I could barely hike in them. They were awesome on steep ice, but the pain of the approach hike was too much of a trade off for me. I find the Scarpas to be the most comfortable double plastic boot I have tried. The optional high altitude liner sealed the deal for me.

 

 

Just found this after I wrote this post:

 

Mountain Trip's recommendations:

 

"Recommended System Boots: SCARPA “PHANTOM 8000”, LA SPORTIVA “OLYMPUS MONS EVO ”

Recommended Double Boots: SCARPA “INVERNO” with High Altitude Liners, KOFLACH “ARCTIS EXPEDITION”, LA SPORTIVA "NUPTSE" OR "SPANTIK". "

Edited December 15, 2006 by jonmf76

[ClimbingPanther]

My feet get cold easily too. I don't know if there's anything to this, but I've noticed a very nice correlation between my water intake and my feet temperature. That is, my feet get cold very easily and will not warm back up if I'm not drinking enough water. Keep that in mind when you're up there.

[jonmf76]

Have you tried putting boiling water in a one quart nalgene then into an insulated case and putting it between your ankles at night in the sleeping bag?

 

I find that the increase in circulation that night and the drying effect on your socks, in particular, really helps keep my feet warm during the next day's climbing itself. There's a huge difference between bone dry socks first thing in the morning and slightly damp ones from the night before.

[ClimbingPanther]

Actually the times my feet were most cold were on day trips with new socks (while the rest of me is always warm). That's why I suspect dehydration reduced my circulation. I was on Leuthold last year on Dec. 11 (kinda scary) one of the times they got really bad off. I went pretty lightweight (<10 lbs) and I probably won't do that again in light of recent events.